Spelljammer The Forgotten Realms eats Spelljammer before it even finishes digesting Radiant Citadel!

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Do they define gods in Eberron as you describe, or are you making an assumption?

I am basically using Keith Baker's stance on this subject word for word. You know, the creator of the setting. So, I'm definitely not just "making an assumption".

(Sorry, I tried to find the specific article from him that I'm thinking of, but I can't seem to find it.)

Also, clearly the issue is how they're described in the books, which seems to be an issue for some. Unless they change the text, your semantics solutions aren't going to cut it.

That would require another book or errata. And this is such an obscure question that I understand why they wouldn't include it in Rising from the Last War, there was other stuff that needed to fill up the book and it was already the longest non-Core book in 5e.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I am basically using Keith Baker's stance on this subject word for word. You know, the creator of the setting. So, I'm definitely not just "making an assumption".

(Sorry, I tried to find the specific article from him that I'm thinking of, but I can't seem to find it.)

That would require another book or errata. And this is such an obscure question that I understand why they wouldn't include it in Rising from the Last War, there was other stuff that needed to fill up the book and it was already the longest non-Core book in 5e.

If that's what Keith says, fair enough (although designer interviews to convey important information always rubs me the wrong way). The books say what they say though, and that's what we have to work with "officially". I can totally see the point of view that has a problem here, even if it doesn't particularly matter to me personally.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

But, according to what is ACTUALLY WRITTEN about these beings, you would be factually wrong. Again, there's no doubt here. It's right there in the first lines of the various Deities books that have been written for Forgotten Realms or for Greyhawk since day 1. These are gods. Full stop. A god is a powerful celestial/fiend that can make worlds. That's exactly what a god IS. Claiming that Tiamat is not a god or Lolth is not a god is flat earth territory. It's just factually wrong.

Now, in your game? Go right ahead. In my game, I treat the whole thing VERY differently than what the books say. But, we're talking about what the books ACTUALLY tell you. And there's no doubt here. These are gods.

Which is why you get problems when different settings try to change the definitions. The settings are largely incompatible that way and you wind up with these bizarre situations where something is both a god and not a god depending on which mountaintop the being is standing on.

ACTUALLY WRITTEN? Where? Are you only including official sources? Because according to kanon, Eberron would not consider the FR pantheon to actually be gods, just like they don't consider the Dreaming Dark, Progenitor Dragons, or Demon Overlords to be gods. That's not written in any official books, but Keith Baker, the creator of Eberron, has confirmed it to be true.

And, I don't think having different settings' definitions of gods being incompatible is a bad thing. On Earth, we certainly don't agree on the definition. So reflecting that in different settings makes sense, even if they're in the same multiverse.

Oh, absolutely. Yes, I agree. That's how it's set up. That's how it has been set up in D&D since Planescape (and probably before). These beings are unique and singular. Which would be fine, except that it's a bit more than your Greece/Rome example because both Greece and Rome had no problems calling these being gods. It wasn't that Zeus suddenly stopped being a god just because he was called Jupiter.

But that's the problem in D&D. In D&D, Zeus stops being a god depending on which setting you want to plonk him in, but, he's supposed to be exactly the same individual. So, you wind up with quantum deities that are both divine and not-divine at the same time.

. . . If the entities (or their religions) differ from world to world due to how they're worshipped there, even though a singular entity does exist, that isn't at conflict with them being "divine". They can be "divine" without being gods, and them being considered gods in one setting and not in another is just due to the different definitions of the word in the different settings.

I really don't see a problem here. There are entities that people in the Forgotten Realms consider "gods" that people in Eberron would refuse to worship. There are "gods" in Eberron that people in the Forgotten Realms would refuse to worship because you can't actually meet them in order to prove that they exist. I don't see how that's a problem. That just seems like an interesting conflict between settings that could make for a cool debate between two clerics from different settings.

 

[Parmandur]

Most if not all of the Candlekeep Mysteries adventures do specify a Forgotten Realms location (not to say you couldn't easily relocate them). And in 2020 there was Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden.

Icewind Dale came out 2 years ago. Journeys Through the Radiant Citadel also specifies Forgotten Realms locations for most of the Adventures (occasionally Greyhawk or Eberron instead, and Mystarra and Ravenloft once each). That doesn't make Journey's a FR book.

 

[Parmandur]

There are 17 WotC modules. I'm not counting Call to the Netherdeep, because that's not really WotC, nor the Rick and Morty one.

5 are not set in Forgotten Realms and 12 are. It's fairly safe to say that Forgotten Realms is the default setting for 5e.

Each of which is easily removed from the FR.

WotC has always insisted on a "multiverse" default Setting, and that is reflected in the product line.

 

[Parmandur]

I think someone at WotC thinks it would be easier if they only had to produce content for one campaign setting, and that while demand for other settings exists, they'd rather have an established multiverse akin to their MtG line, and can then churn out content for all of them at once.

I mean, yes. This has been their explicit plan for nigh a decade now.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Each of which is easily removed from the FR.

WotC has always insisted on a "multiverse" default Setting, and that is reflected in the product line.

They have insisted on the Multiverse, but the product line has heavily reflected a Realms-centric philosophy. They may be trying to avert that recently, but very recently.

 

[Parmandur]

They have insisted on the Multiverse, but the product line has heavily reflected a Realms-centric philosophy. They may be trying to avert that recently, but very recently.

2018 isn't that recent anymore. But the FR is the go to in broad strokes not because it us the default Setting, but rather the Median Setting. Using the FR allows them to put out material that fits generic D&D worlds, which works becamost people homebrew, and those that don't mostly use generic Settongs like FR. Dragonlance, Greyhawk, or Exandria.

 

[jasper]

These are the official books of Adventure League.
The following books can be used to create your pc. Players Handbook, Fizban’s Treasury of Dragons, Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse, Spelljammer Adventurers in Space, Sword Coast Adventure’s Guide, Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything, The Wild Beyond Witchlight, Xanathar’s Guide to Everything, Elemental Evil Player’s Companion, Locathah from Locathah Rising, and other selected adventures.
I just finished running the first chapter of Radiant Citadel about an hour ago with 4 players. And Tomorrow will be running Spelljammer Academny. If the Realms are the kitchen sink of the game, AL is the kitchen floor.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Icewind Dale came out 2 years ago. Journeys Through the Radiant Citadel also specifies Forgotten Realms locations for most of the Adventures (occasionally Greyhawk or Eberron instead, and Mystarra and Ravenloft once each). That doesn't make Journey's a FR book.

All Candlekeep Mysteries start in Candlekeep. Which last time I checked, is in the FR. Whilst you can relocate them, the book includes no specific suggestions about doing so. It is undoubtably an FR book.

All of Radiant Citadel Adventures start in the Radiant Citadel by default, with relocation suggestions. It is undoubtably not an FR book.