D&D 5E Toward a new D&D aesthetics

[doctorbadwolf]

Mostly I was laughing about the DM screen being yet another example of the Blue/Purple/Pink mass I've been complaining about. I normally quite like minimalism as well, but the image of Tasha just doesnt work for me as its again too....something if we cannot use the 'D' word.

Non-Offensive, and Age Neutral. Throw in my (personal) complaint about palette and genre, and I think hopefully I've been clear enough.

Would you really want offensive adult-only art all over the books? It’s not like D&D is about super dark adult stories, but even most VtM art isn’t like, gory or obscene.

 

[Scribe]

Would you really want offensive adult-only art all over the books? It’s not like D&D is about super dark adult stories, but even most VtM art isn’t like, gory or obscene.

No, but I wouldnt mind if it wasn't so plainly obvious all the time that they desire far more to be accessible to as many people as possible, than interesting.

I get it, they want to be in every home, on every bookshelf, as thats what a good capitalist corporation wants more than anything else.

That doesnt appeal to me.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No, but I wouldnt mind if it wasn't so plainly obvious all the time that they desire far more to be accessible to as many people as possible, than interesting.

I get it, they want to be in every home, on every bookshelf, as thats what a good capitalist corporation wants more than anything else.

That doesnt appeal to me.

Okay now I really don’t get what you’re on about.

The art is not what you want because you think it indicates a desire to have the broadest appeal possible? Is that right? I’m not being rhetorical, I want to be sure I understand before I try to engage with the idea you’ve put forth.

 

[Guest 7034872]

You've been very clear that it isn't to your taste, and that's entirely reasonable. I just don't see the problem if it's only an alt version and therefore completely optional if you want to buy the product. Releasing different styles of art side-by-side actually seems like a pretty good compromise to me.

Yeah, I can go with that. Suppose Betty doesn't like pastel colors for her D&D cover art (it conflicts with what she's imagined in her head), but further suppose Bobby loves the stuff. Now further further suppose the marketing wizzes at WotC saw fit to offer multiple versions of the book where one has pastels a-go-go and another has nothing even faintly reminiscent of anime or, err..."the Michael Mann color palette."

Doesn't this just mean everyone goes home happy?

 

[Mythos Enthusiast]

Okay now I really don’t get what you’re on about.

The art is not what you want because you think it indicates a desire to have the broadest appeal possible? Is that right? I’m not being rhetorical, I want to be sure I understand before I try to engage with the idea you’ve put forth.

I'm sure he can speak for himself, but I also reasonably sure that he's making this point just more naturally/intuitively.

If I have to sell pizza to a group of 100 people, and everyone in that group has to agree, the odds of it being a bland or fairly 'normal' pizza are very high.

For example, the person who likes anchovies and extra garlic on their pizza probably isn't going to get that.

With D&D, the idea is that you want to reach as many people as possible, but also alienate as few people as possible. Things that are bland(er) or nondescript typically alienate fewer people.

If I wanted to sell as many albums as possible in the US, I wouldn't push Scandinavian death metal; I'd push formulaic pop music that is statistically and scientifically proven to have a broader mass market appeal. That doesn't mean one is worse or better than the other, just that one has more appeal than the other to a greater number of people.

If the gentleman had his way, D&D would be more like the way he wanted it and as a result fewer people would play it. For him, this is probably a fair trade.

To me, it's just intuitively obvious that if you want to sell a type of media and all you care about is the number of sales or number of eyeballs, you're not going to take risks or deal with niche interests.

 

[Scribe]

Okay now I really don’t get what you’re on about.

The art is not what you want because you think it indicates a desire to have the broadest appeal possible? Is that right? I’m not being rhetorical, I want to be sure I understand before I try to engage with the idea you’ve put forth.

OK let me try again.

1. I think whatever you want to call it "Blue/Purple/Pink" everywhere, is over done, and I personally dont associate it with a 'Fantasy' palette, but perhaps a "Fantasy Sci-Fi" one. This is a personal issue, as a preference, I want more...pastoral tones?

2. I see the usage of that palette, in combination with an active push towards being 'safe' (no Bikini Chainmail, no brutal violence, no 'edgy'ness and instead pushing to be 'cute') as a way to be as broadly appealing as possible, not for any kind of artistic sake, but to literally be as corporately cynically 'cool', safe, and popular as possible, in a bluntly obvious desire to maximize profits.

3. Before anyone (not you @doctorbadwolf but in general) bleats at me that they (WotC) are a corporation that is either desiring to make money, or god forbid, mandated to make as much money as possible, my own view on corporate America is not, and never will be, one of tolerance or appreciation for their position, practices, or integrity, aka: I dont care.

4. Do I feel the art reflects a desire to have the broadest desire possible? Yes. Do I personally feel that detracts from the product? Yes.

5. Look at the Planescape style from largely (competely?) DiTerlizzi. It may not be to everyone's liking, it may not be dark, or edgy, or violent, but its absolutely something which speaks to that time, and makes itself unique to that setting. I find the art from these other recent books all just bleeding together into...a Blue/Purple/Pink mass, just like the art I called out yesterday, and the DM screen I pointed out today. Heck, I could find the same style as these recent D&D works, in MTG probably with minimal effort, and you can certainly find it online.

EDIT: Notice the style of the 3 lands here for example. This block these came from had distinct styles for each of the 3 lands part of the various factions. Its not generalized, there is a 'something' that the art direction was going for.

type:land set:ala (artist:michael artist:komarck)

3 Magic cards found where the card types include “land” and the set is “ala” and (the artist name includes “michael” and the artist name includes “komarck”)

scryfall.com

 

[Malmuria]

5. Look at the Planescape style from largely (competely?) DiTerlizzi. It may not be to everyone's liking, it may not be dark, or edgy, or violent, but its absolutely something which speaks to that time, and makes itself unique to that setting. I find the art from these other recent books all just bleeding together into...a Blue/Purple/Pink mass, just like the art I called out yesterday, and the DM screen I pointed out today. Heck, I could find the same style as these recent D&D works, in MTG probably with minimal effort, and you can certainly find it online.

I think TSR was not as interested in their products having a consistent/homogenized aesthetic across all their products, compared to WOTC in any edition. I feel like each 2e product line had a team that was somewhat out on an island (or at least PS seemed to), and thus was able to produce a consistent aesthetic that way. The benefits of consistency is that it gives each edition a particular, distinctive look (and again I'd say a 5e art style is more or less recognizable from the phb to the latest release). The drawbacks is that after enough releases it gets tired and boring.

I think what makes DiTerlizzi's art for planescape work is that it is weird. There's the sense that you could chat up a demon in Sigil, and that's both a normal and extremely weird and unsettling experience, at the same time. Destructive monsters have an aspect of cuteness to them and LG celestials have an air of intensity to their benevolence. Tieflings are a good example of this, in that 5e tieflings are (in the phb and mtof) very "major key" devilish, whereas Diterlizzi's tieflings were more "minor key," if that makes any sense.

what's that? I'm just using this as an excuse to post more planescape art? why, I would never...

D&D General - Tony Diterlizzi appreciation thread

As Tony DiTerlizzi was inexplicably eliminated in the survivor:artists thread, I thought I'd make an appreciation post. He's really my favorite, bringing the aesthetic of Arthur Rackham, Edmund Dulac, Leon Carre, Dante Gabriel Rossetti, and Brian Froud into the world of dnd.

www.enworld.org

 

[Scribe]

what's that? I'm just using this as an excuse to post more planescape art? why, I would never...

I'm here for it lol.

 

[Umbran]

2. I see the usage of that palette, in combination with an active push towards being 'safe' (no Bikini Chainmail, no brutal violence, no 'edgy'ness and instead pushing to be 'cute') as a way to be as broadly appealing as possible, not for any kind of artistic sake, but to literally be as corporately cynically 'cool', safe, and popular as possible, in a bluntly obvious desire to maximize profits.

So, there's a problem with this analysis - they don't actually try to appeal to everyone with every product. Take, for example, the recent Stryxhaven product. That's not a generic setting that is expected to appeal to every gamer - lots of folks who aren't into "magical school" narratives aren't going to give a hoot for it. Similarly, folks who aren't interested in themes of ancient Greek mythology aren't going to be interested in "Mythic Odesseys of Theros". They, do, in fact, allow a great deal of choice in terms of theme and direction for products.

So, there has to be another explanation. The lack of gruesome violence, sexual content, or other "edginess" seems a more specific editorial choice to be family friendly. Not all of it is specifically aimed at kids, but it should be okay for a 12-year-old to pick up and use.

And, I'll be honest, the lack of sex, drugs, and guts all over the artwork doesn't seem to actually restrict the products all that much.

 

[Scribe]

So, there's a problem with this analysis - they don't actually try to appeal to everyone with every product. Take, for example, the recent Stryxhaven product. That's not a generic setting that is expected to appeal to every gamer - lots of folks who aren't into "magical school" narratives aren't going to give a hoot for it. Similarly, folks who aren't interested in themes of ancient Greek mythology aren't going to be interested in "Mythic Odesseys of Theros". They, do, in fact, allow a great deal of choice in terms of theme and direction for products.

So, there has to be another explanation. The lack of gruesome violence, sexual content, or other "edginess" seems a more specific editorial choice to be family friendly. Not all of it is specifically aimed at kids, but it should be okay for a 12-year-old to pick up and use.

And, I'll be honest, the lack of sex, drugs, and guts all over the artwork doesn't seem to actually restrict the products all that much.

If the art style I've been decrying was relegated to a single product, I would have far less issue with it because at least then, it would like Planescape, and tied to a specific thing for better or worse.

The lack of gruesome violence, sexual content, or other "edginess" seems a more specific editorial choice to be family friendly.

I certainly agree with this however, as its what I've essentially been saying, just in another way. Non-offensive, and Age Neutral.