D&D (2024) Treantmonk's Ranger DPS video:

[UngeheuerLich]

It's con
And its con score?

Still the same.

Its con save still dropped from +14 to +7.

Which means that considering its CR 22, you might face it in tier 4. So most probably your Topple DC is 8+11=19.

That means the dragon needs a 12 to save against it. So 55% chance to knockdown.

By that time as a fighter you have 3 attacks, 2 action surges and probably ways to get advantage. And the AC is only 21 against your attack bonus of +11 without any magic weapon. Since probably you have a +2 weapon at this point, you probably hit with an 8, so 65% chance to hit, or 1-0.35^2 = 0.8775 with advantage.

So if we assume most of your attacks are with advantage, that makes graze a damage boost of 0.1225*5 = 0.6 damage per attack on average.

Again. The last assumption might be wrong (as there mighte be effects that cancel advantage), but overall the damage boost of graze is not that big of we make different assumptions than treantmonk.

None of that lessens the work he does as the reality probably lies between both edge cases.

So I guess topple and graze are well balanced against wach other.

 

[Charlaquin]

Look I watch treatments vids, but just dpr is a bad way to judge any of these classes.

He doesn’t judge classes just based on DPR. He repeatedly says this is one specific metric he’s analyzing and it’s not the only thing that matters.

He called the s+b fighter bad because it's dpr wasn't as high as a 2hander build but I think a s+b fighter will survive and tank. Also I think the EK is the subclass for survival and locking a monster down.

He didn’t say it’s bad in general, he just said it’s DPR is worse. Which it is.

 

[Horwath]

Give them the dex save bonus back.

that is always an option.

 

[Sulicius]

why do you think that people who care about the game working right(math) do not care about other aspects of the game?

this goes without saying.
anyone not doing that is more or less rude towards other in the game, especially the DM

Again, why does caring about the math of the game and balance prevents you being a "good" player. Whatever a "good" player means to you?

I think that because people here don't talk about being a good player, just about mechanics.

 

[Minigiant]

You can tell what the designer would have changed if they weren't beholden to backwards compatibility.


5e needed a few whole new changed subsystems and added content.

Like Rangers needed rewritten zephyr strike.

 

[Horwath]

I think that because people here don't talk about being a good player, just about mechanics.

we have all here reached the consensus that we are all good players so there is nothing to talk about.

mechanics on the other hand...

 

[mellored]

But I have a better system: come join me this friday for an online Sunless Citadel game using the 2024 rules. I am not kidding.

What time?

 

[SteveC]

When I think about Treantmonk's videos, I take them as a starting point for discussion. I think he does a pretty good job of putting caveats into his videos that this is only the start of the conversation on optimizing a character.

A lot of the things people are saying in this thread he actually discusses and tells you that they are a reason you might not want to take what he's saying as gospel. What this series of videos about it comparing apples to apples as much as possible. And if we see a class that is wildly different than others, you can take a look at it. I think the interesting thing is how the classes he's done so far have been pretty comparable. Right now the Ranger isn't looking so hot, but it does other things (especially area damage) better than other classes. But he admits that's not what he's discussing in the current series of videos.

I've always thought that Treantmonk made videos that are a great place to get you started. And I don't know if everyone knows this, but he runs tons of games for his Patreons so he sees how different builds or optimization techniques work in the real world.

 

[Sulicius]

What time?

7 pm CET

 

[mellored]

7 pm CET

I work then, unfortunately.