TSR TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine. Then, earlier this year, TSR (3) swooped in on the TSR trademark, after Jayson Elliot accidentally let it lapse, as TSR (2) confirms:

We have owned the TSR trademark since 2011. Last year, we missed a filing date, and another company registered it, though we are still using it in commerce. While we could win a lawsuit, we frankly don't have the money to litigate. So, we're licensing it back from them.

As a result, there are two companies now using the name TSR. You can tell when it's us because we're the only ones using the new logo.

They're opening a museum in Lake Geneva at the old TSR house, and we wish them success with it, it's important to celebrate the legacy that Gary Gygax created.

Ernie Gygax, formerly of TSR (1) under Gary Gygax, then working with Jayson Elliot as part of TSR (2), is one of the founders of of TSR (3), and confirmed in his (now infamous) interview --

The other TSR is a licensee because [Jayson Elliot] let it lapse. But he had absolutely ... love for the game and the products. There was no reason to say 'oh you've screwed up, oh it's all ours, ha ha ha ha!' Instead, Justin [LaNasa] came to him and said ... we love that you're doing Top Secret things, we have a much broader goal for the whole thing. But there's no reason for you to stop or even have any troubles. Justin said, I'll take care of the paperwork, you just give me $10 a year, and you put out all this love for old school gaming that you can. And we appreciate that you were there to try and pick up things, and you produced Gygax Magazine, for in its time that you're also working on a game that you love to play ... because Top Secret was Jayson's love, as a young man.

TSR (2), still run by Jayson Elliot, publishes Top Secret, and is not connected to TSR (3) other than now having to license it’s own name from them. TSR (3) has also registered the trademark to Star Frontiers, a game owned by and still currently sold by D&D-owner WotC.

In other news the GYGAX trademark appears to have lapsed.

UPDATE! TSR (2) has decided NOT to license its own name from TSR (3):

Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

But you just created a new logical fallacy in that you made a case for an objective stance of objective evil that some dead people did.

This may surprise you, but moral realism is still actually quite popular, both in academia and in everyday life.

We know that in our diverse world with cultures spanning eons, there are no universal objective standards by which to judge everyone equally all over the world.

Not everybody believes this. Many people do believe that there is an objective standard of morality.

This fallacy is made worse when we blindly single out a particular dead person we may personally dislike for specific criticism from a peculiar modern perspective. Using such an approach is self defeating for it condemns every human being into some evil category.

No it doesn't.

Some even say before you remove the speck from a stranger's eye, remove from yours first.

This is very specific to Christianity.

Basically, because norms change over time and across the world, every human has an ancestor who committed acts considered wrong by today's standards.

Yes.

So we are all condemned.

No. The lasting consequences of our ancestors' actions are ours' to rectify and atone for, but the moral weight of their sins rests on them alone. Also you're bringing up sin a lot, just letting you know. It's honestly really creepy.

To the single out Gary Gygax for special public lynching is hypocritical. Everyone here said something they regret sometime in life. If every statement is recorded and meticulously analysed, we are sinners all.

If you say blatantly racist and sexist garbage, even if it was long in the past, you're apologize for that. Preferably before you're publicly found out and taken to task, both so you can make amends on your own terms and to show that you genuinely regret saying what you did and are making an effort to change. If you die before making that change for the better, well that's a permanent stain on your record. Religious platitudes need not be factored into it.

The issue I have is not with reasonable critique, but the hypocrisy of Wizards of the Coast issuing disclaimers only recently upon products they have been selling for profit for years.

It's far from being enough, but it's better than nothing.

It is like watching a big Western corporation issue disclaimers about child slavery yet doing business along their supply chain with some exploitative company in another country that uses child labor. Performative virtue signaling that does not actually solve the root problem.

Yes, that's bad. Corporations suck. Workers of the world, you have nothing to lose but your chains, debout, les damnés de la terre, blah blah blah, I'm up for that. But that isn't what's going on in this specific instance. Everybody who has been calling out TSR(3) on their bull has been doing so in their capacity as individual persons, not as representatives of other companies except where necessary to prevent confusion, like TSR(2) did.

People on this forum who called for more reasoned debate are not getting the same likes like those who ridicule Gary Gygax.

Because the people "calling for more reasoned debate" are going to bat for a person who does not deserve that courtesy. Either they're totally oblivious, or they're intentionally sealioning.

And if you visit the TSR Games Twitter, you see a large group of mostly internet savvy young people attack an old man who misspoke from anger that so many enjoy his father's game but hate his father so. That exchange when viewed from a wider holistic view looks more like a gang of youngsters beating up an aging defenseless fellow.

You may see that. Stripped of all context, somebody who's completely clueless may come to that conclusion at a first glance. But the devil is always in the details. Looking more closely, you may see that what is happening is that a yet another out-of-touch white cishet man made some offensive remarks about race and gender, and his company's social media is doubling down rather than disavowing his statements or otherwise controlling the damage. The people calling TSR(3) out are the minorities that Ernie Gygax disparaged in his interview, along with their allies and other parties interested in keeping out regressive and bigoted attitudes from the tabletop roleplaying hobby.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Oh good lord.

Most folks in this thread, and on the TSR Games FB page, are expressing upset over the very real transphobic comments made by Ernie Gygax. No one is ridiculing his father, or even him, outside his recent behavior.

The general consensus seems to be:

1. Gary Gygax is beloved for his creation of D&D, alongside Dave Arneson. And rightly so.
2. Gary was a terrible businessman who made a lot of really bad decisions in regards to D&D and TSR, and some unethical ones as well (i.e. Dave Arneson).
3. Gary Gygax was held to be a pretty nice and decent guy, although Dave Arneson might disagree . . .
4. Gary held some unapologetically racist and sexist views until the day he passed. Views not uncommon at the time, but views that many then and now found offensive. Views that were debated at the time, both in society at large and within the gaming community.
5. Gary wasn't a bigot, clan member, or outright misogynist . . . someone upthread (or on a different thread) referred to his level of racism/sexism as "grandpa racist/sexist". I'd call it "unquestioned acceptance of systemic racism and sexism without acknowledging one's own privilege".
6. Gary, like most humans, was a complicated guy with both good and bad traits. We can talk about both, we can appreciate his good traits, and speak against his bad.
7. Ernie seems to be a chip off the old block. Bad as a businessman, including some unethical choices (i.e. Jayson Elliott). "Grandpa racist/sexist". But also a really nice guy trying to promote his father's legacy and celebrate the early history of D&D and TSR, of which he was a part, if a small part.

The part I'd disagree with you there is part 7. I've seen very little to say that Ernie is in any way a "really nice guy". Merely that he's an unethical businessman known to commit sleazy practices (which means any niceness which I haven't heard about either needs to be elsewhere or is superficial) and not fulfill his promises - and he doesn't seem to me to be trying to promote his father's legacy so much as he is trying to cash in on his father's legacy. But this isn't a beef with Gary Gygax. And he has a lot less excuse than his father did to be "Grandpa racist/sexist".

 

[dragoner]

And he has a lot less excuse than his father did to be "Grandpa racist/sexist".

More like grandpa edgelord, and like the kids say: "don't cut yourself on that edge" except it seems that is exactly what is happening.

 

[MoonSong]

Merely that he's an unethical businessman known to commit sleazy practices

I wouldn't call him that, unethical businesspeople are at least competent at running a business?

 

[Neonchameleon]

I wouldn't call him that, unethical businesspeople are at least competent at running a business?

Frequently not. A lot of scams started out as a bad businessperson thinking that all they wanted was a small bridge to tide themselves over.

 

[Dire Bare]

The part I'd disagree with you there is part 7. I've seen very little to say that Ernie is in any way a "really nice guy". Merely that he's an unethical businessman known to commit sleazy practices (which means any niceness which I haven't heard about either needs to be elsewhere or is superficial) and not fulfill his promises - and he doesn't seem to me to be trying to promote his father's legacy so much as he is trying to cash in on his father's legacy. But this isn't a beef with Gary Gygax. And he has a lot less excuse than his father did to be "Grandpa racist/sexist".

At the beginning of this trash fire, many folks who knew Ernie personally, or who had met him, even gamed with him, were surprised over his behaviors that have come to light. Like his dad, he's a genuinely nice guy to hang and game with. I do think he's trying to cash in on his dad's legacy, but I also think he's honestly trying to preserve and celebrate it too. Both can be true at the same time.

But he certainly did Jayson Elliott dirty (well, he was either a party to the deed, or an apologist for it). He refuses to take responsibility for his part in the failed Marmoreal Tomb project. He's unapologetic over his racist and sexist views, unwilling to listen, to grow, to apologize, to change. I don't think that makes him a bad person overall, just somebody who . . . I am not impressed with, and choose not to patronize or associate with. Perhaps, instead of me thinking of him as a nice guy, I'll think of him as genial when in his element. People are complicated, and can be both good and bad all at the same time, both Gary and Ernie Gygax included. I'm willing to forgive the guy if he comes to his senses and makes an honest apology and reparations for the harm he's caused.

 

[Parmandur]

I wouldn't call him that, unethical businesspeople are at least competent at running a business?

No necessarily, they are orthogonal traits: just because someone is successful doesn't meant they had to be unethical to get there, and just because somebody pulls a shady business move doesn't mean they know how to do so successfully.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Yeah, what is the internet for if not for discussing with people you'll never see in person about irrelevant things that don't matter?

Isn't that redundant? Doesn't irrelevant mean "it doesn't matter"?

See! I win the internet! I just discussed something that doesn't matter (the redundancy of saying "irrelevant things that don't matter") with someone that I don't know!

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Luke absolutely IS both competent and savvy

I don't know why, but for some reason I first read that as "competent and sexy".

(I recently started getting treated for ADHD. Maybe I need to be tested for dyslexia as well.)

Just looked up a picture of him. Hmm. I can see it.

 

[Nilonym]

This is not a copyright issue. It is a trademark issue. They are not the same.

You are correct. The above relates to trademark, not copyright. Thanks for catching that.