TSR TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are).

The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time of writing).

The action TSR seeks is a "Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership" which is a court declaration about the status of something in dispute.

TSR has launched a campaign to stop Wizards of the Coast

Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.


The new TSR suffered widespread pushback when it launched, which they blamed on WotC, claiming that they were under a "coordinated assault across various channels being mounted.... by [WotC]" The company announced itself earlier this year, having acquired the TSR trademark after the previous holder accidentally let it lapse. It was run by Ernie Gygax, Justin LaNasa, and Stephen Dinehart. After several weeks of controversy, the company split into two -- Wonderfilled (Stephen Dinehart), and TSR (Ernie Gygax and Justin LaNasa).


zw5pyzcqtfqc7xu2.jpg


The page also indicates an intention to "fight to have WotC's legacy product disclaimer removed" from older products (that's the disclaimer on the older books available on DMs Guild which indicates that those books are products of their time) by claiming that the disclaimer portrays the creators of those older products as "as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products".


TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership . TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".


TSR3's Justin LaNasa spoke about the campaign in a YouTube video.


 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
Wait. !TSR claims that DMsGuild is the seller and therefore they are not WotC products so WotC isn’t using the logo? Yet! Yet they call the product with the disclaimers TSR products and claim WotC has the control over the placement of said disclaimers?!?

Should they they be suing Drivethru if they really believed their own malarkey?
That's . . . that's like claiming that Disneyland has the rights to Mickey Mouse, not Disney, because there are Mickey Mouse-based rides at Disneyland. Disney owns Disneyland and Wizards of the Coast owns DMsGuild.

Actually, it's worse than that, because they're admitting that Wizards of the Coast at least controls DMsGuild because of the whole Disclaimer thing.

So, it's like claiming that Disney doesn't own Mickey Mouse, because Disneyland uses rides that have Mickey Mouse in it, and that Disney can prevent you from getting into Disneyland . . . even if your previous argument hinged on them not owning it.

🤦‍♂️

These people are so dumb. I can't . . . I can't even fathom it.
 

log in or register to remove this ad



Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Get Covid at tsrcon and bring it to GaryCon. 😡

In the same weekend, no - someone who doesn't start with covid won't be able to catch it, and bring it to the other con - you need a couple days to become infectious. However, anyone infectious who goes to both and spread it around at both.

The irony, believing in magical curses while the his presence was the real curse the whole time.

I believe the operative phrase is, 'It takes one to know one.'
 

AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
They aren't, though. The plan all along has been to get people outraged enough to donate money to their fundraiser, and then pocket the donations per the fine print.
I don't see why those are mutually exclusive. Intelligent grifters wouldn't do the whole "they don't own this property, except they do, except when we don't think they do, except they really do then, too" thing.
 


darjr

I crit!
Why go to the trouble of the logo/trademark thing then? They could have grifted with the shop museum and Ernies stamp of approval and strategically placed photos of their collectables all over their digital media.

This mess they are in is stupid.
 

They aren't, though. The plan all along has been to get people outraged enough to donate money to their fundraiser, and then pocket the donations per the fine print.

It's important to remember that, by this logic, we're the rubes. ENWorld has more posts about TSR's fundraising than TSR's discord, Twitter, Youtube, and the Indiegogo page combined. They've posted on a few other locations, but most of their attempts at spamming have either fizzled out or led to a ban. By all accounts, nuTSR is 3 people. I'm probably personally guilty of doing more promotional work than the employees have.

We can take solace in the fact that it hasn't resulted in much money being spent. I think nuTSR has drastically overestimated the size of the OSR market.
 

...
Justin: We never knew WotC was selling products with those marks, so we have rights to them
Everyone else: What about your comments complaining about the disclaimers on products they are selling? The disclaimers that only show up on those products that have those marks you are saying you weren't aware are for sale? How can you claim in the legal filing that you weren't aware of them while at the same time complaining about them the whole time?
Justin: We asked WotC for proof and they never gave any.
Everyone else: By your own filing, you said they provided you two links to the website that is currently selling them. So they did give you proof.
Justin: Those links don't count, because it was OBS, not Wotc selling them.
Everyone else: OK, so let's ignore how you said they never gave you proof while at the same time saying they gave you proof, and let's ignore how you said you weren't aware of them being used/sold while at the same time complaining about the disclaimer on them while they were being sold. Putting all of that aside, if it's OBS selling them, wouldn't they have the rights to them?
Justin: ...creates another LLC..
Except Justin doesn't reply with either; a) such proper grammar, or, b) any politeness
;)
Wizards of the Coast owns DMsGuild.
No they do not. DMsGuild is owned and operated by One Book Shelf. OBS has an agreement with WotC to run it an allow WotC IP etc to be used with it. To see this, go on the DMsG, click the link on the bottom titled "About Us" and it will take you to this OBS site; About OneBookShelf
 
Last edited:

Wilphe

Adventurer
Yeah but they are not generating outrage

They briefly generated outrage in June/July

And they may have thought that they could keep that up and monetise it

And they can't

Because they are very bad at this

And all they have managed since is to inspire mild but bemused contempt
 

Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
We can take solace in the fact that it hasn't resulted in much money being spent. I think nuTSR has drastically overestimated the size of the OSR market.
The OSR market isn't that small. There are many successful products many more small products that manage to make a small profit. NuTSR however appears to be only in the business of grifting. They aren't making any products.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
It's the closest to truth, yet shortest, description of the movement I've seen!

...it also describes me so well.

Venger seems to be the exact same person as I if I hadnt stopped being the ass-hat I was in my teenager years. :p
Yeah, I went through a satanist phase as a teenager too 😅
 

Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
The OSR market isn't that small. There are many successful products many more small products that manage to make a small profit. NuTSR however appears to be only in the business of grifting. They aren't making any products.
Yup. There are lots of great OSR products out there, and people buying them. The OSR Advanced Fantasy Kickstarter brought in $291,000. Ernie's Marmoreal Tomb brought in $125,000.

But TSR3 isn't putting out any good or interesting products. So far they don't sell any games actually created by them.

While the Gygax name DOES have some marketing power in old school circles, the terrible execution on Ernie's prior Kickstarter (which is apparently finally getting ready to deliver, at least five years late) has also damaged his marketing credibility even among the hoariest of grognards.

And despite their delusions, the share of the OSR crowd which finds LaNasa and Ernie's culture war marketing gimmick appealing is a minority of even that somewhat niche community.

 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Why go to the trouble of the logo/trademark thing then?

Because there wasn't any anger about the museum to speak of. The logo/trademark thing is where they look like a small guy who needs help against the Big Corporation.

It's important to remember that, by this logic, we're the rubes. ENWorld has more posts about TSR's fundraising than TSR's discord, Twitter, Youtube, and the Indiegogo page combined.

I don't see how we are the rubes - rubes are the ones who give you money. We aren't giving them money. We aren't even giving them free advertising - we post about them, but nobody who gives them money is reading here.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Yup. There are lots of great OSR products out there, and people buying them. The OSR Advanced Fantasy Kickstarter brought in $291,000. Ernie's Marmoreal Tomb brought in $125,000.
OK, I gotta ask: why is it called Marmoreal? Is it a play on memorial and granite?
 



OK, I gotta ask: why is it called Marmoreal? Is it a play on memorial and granite?

I think it's just a play on "memorial". I also think nuTSR want's people to think they're associated the the Gary Gyagax memorial, but the folks managing that fund have told nuTSR that they're not allowed to claim that they have a relationship.
 


Related Articles

Visit Our Sponsor

Latest threads

Level Up!

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top