Two-handed fighting (not TWF)

[mikebr99]

The next step from PHB2 for the fighter requires lvl 12. Melee Weapon Mastery doesn't look like it does much, in itself. Am I missing something?

Yup... it will be another +2 to hit and damage with his sword... or any slashing weapon for that matter.

Mike

 

[GilaMonster]

Ah, ok.

So, the fighter has an AC of 17 (RAW would be 10+8(armour)+1(bonus)-1(dex) = 18) OK, but not that impressive at 10th level. My non-combat oriented 7th level cleric has an AC of 17.

The elf has an AC of 18 (RAW would be 10+4(armour)+1(bonus)+4(dex, limited by armour))
(I'm not familiar with the UA varient rules)

The fighter needs more AC, especially if he's holding the front line.
Does improved buckler defense work with a two-handed weapon, or just when duel-wielding?

Is the fighter's weapon just a +1, or are there other enchentments on it? If the former, then suggest to him that he gets it enchented, maybe an elemental brand or elemental burst.
An elemental burst would be very nasty. Won't come into play often, but when it does...
Normal - 2d6 + 7 + 1d6(elemental). Average = 17.5, max = 25
Crit - 8d6 + 28 + 1d6 (elemental) + 3d10 (burst). Average - 75, max = 112.

HTH

 

[Drowbane]

I've got a fighter in my group who uses a mercurial greatsword (required magic to even create). He does pretty well, but he's really starting to feel outclassed by the swashbuckler.

I think the major issue is that there are so many feats out there to boost the AC and damage output for light, dex-based fighters, but I'm not seeing anything beyond Power Attack for the two-handed fighter.

Any suggestions on optimizing the build of a tenth-level fighter? He does have a feat slot (Imp Sunder) that he's never used and I'd allow him to reslot, plus he hasn't picked his tenth-level bonus feat, yet.

A 2-hander Fighter being outclassed by a... Swashbuckler?! This thread should have been tagged under "Humor".

 

[Mercule]

Well, I ran the actual averages, and it does appear that the player is going off a sort of basic assumption. If I figured things right, the fighter should be averaging 1.5 to 2 times the damage of the elf, and that includes using the Sense Weakness feat.

 

[Quartz]

The swashbuckler has a better weapon (Keen), a stat-boosting item that boosts a combat stat that gets three uses (attack via Weapon Finesse, Defence, and Saving Throws), and better stats even without enhancement and you're surprised that the fighter's being outclassed?

Either give the fighter some goodies or get rid of the swashbuckler's goodies.

 

[Mercule]

Either give the fighter some goodies or get rid of the swashbuckler's goodies.

You're missing the point, man. The fighter has a higher personal wealth than the swashbuckler. Both of them have had most of their items to-order. The question is, what's the fighter done wrong with his build/treasure, and what can be done to fix it.

 

[moritheil]

Just to give the flip side of the issue, a lot of this assumes stock monsters and "reasonable" AC levels for ECL. In my 'Moritheil AC Limit' post, I attempted to point out that virtually anyone can get an AC of 5*character level (and several people broke that) provided that they are willing to build their character accordingly. Obviously, when you can't hit at all, Power Attack generally looks less attractive (though some argue that if you can only hit on a confirmed critical, you should full power attack to make your lucky rolls that much more devastating.)

 

[Enkhidu]

You're missing the point, man. The fighter has a higher personal wealth than the swashbuckler. Both of them have had most of their items to-order. The question is, what's the fighter done wrong with his build/treasure, and what can be done to fix it.

I really don't think this is something that needs to be fixed with gear or build, but with tactics and appropriate use of PA. The greatsword fighter is already decked out with right feats (Weapon Focus, Specialization, and Improved Crit), his damage per hit is tons better, and his attack bonus is only slightly behind the swashbuckler.

Does the great sword fighter just roll poorly, or is he missing the consistent nickel and dime damage?

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've got a fighter in my group who uses a mercurial greatsword (required magic to even create). He does pretty well, but he's really starting to feel outclassed by the swashbuckler.

I'm sorry that I don't have any positive suggestions to make, but I just wanted to say that I never expected to see anyone write *that* paragraph! A 2H weapon user feeling outclassed by a swashbuckler! Order the tickertape parade, I say

Cheers

 

[moritheil]

I really don't think this is something that needs to be fixed with gear or build, but with tactics and appropriate use of PA. The greatsword fighter is already decked out with right feats (Weapon Focus, Specialization, and Improved Crit), his damage per hit is tons better, and his attack bonus is only slightly behind the swashbuckler.

Does the great sword fighter just roll poorly, or is he missing the consistent nickel and dime damage?

I agree - it looks to me like the fighter is overusing PA and missing.