Weapon Sizes and the Bastard Sword

[Brother Shatterstone]

Okay, I've been having some debate with one of my DMs about the Weapon Sizes and what not... It’s been a long debate and most of it doesn't matter here but I've been left with one perplexing question.

If a medium sized character has the exotic weapon proficiency Bastard sword and he comes across a large bastard sword would he be able to wield it two-handed cause of the EWP or not?

I say yes he could. The amount of effort would be increased and the hand designator would change from one handed to two handed but my DM doesn’t agree with me.

Am I right?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Okay, I've been having some debate with one of my DMs about the Weapon Sizes and what not... It’s been a long debate and most of it doesn't matter here but I've been left with one perplexing question.

If a medium sized character has the exotic weapon proficiency Bastard sword and he comes across a large bastard sword would he be able to wield it two-handed cause of the EWP or not?

I say yes he could. The amount of effort would be increased and the hand designator would change from one handed to two handed but my DM doesn’t agree with me.

Am I right?

It depends if you use the PHB, or the FAQ.

The PHB says a bastard sword is a one-handed weapon that is too large to wield in one hand without special training.

The FAQ says "The bastard sword, lance, and dwarven waraxe are all twohanded weapons that can be used in one hand under the correct circumstances (the bastard sword and dwarven waraxe are shown on Table 7–5 as one-handed exotic weapons, but they’re
really two-handed weapons)."

... uh-huh.

-Hyp.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

The PHB says a bastard sword is a one-handed weapon that is too large to wield in one hand without special training.

The PHB also states that a character can use a bastard sword two handed as a martial weapon…

(So yeah... I just started the next flaming burst whip and damage thread )

 

[Hypersmurf]

The PHB also states that a character can use a bastard sword two handed as a martial weapon…

There's a difference between using a weapon two-handed, and using a weapon as a two-handed weapon.

I can use my battleaxe two-handed, for 1.5x Str bonus to damage, but it's still a one-handed weapon.

Anyway, if you ignore the FAQ, there's no reason a Medium character with EWP: Bastard Sword can't use a Large bastard sword in two hands. (In fact, that's exactly what I'd say is the 3.5 version of the Fullblade - a Large bastard sword.)

If you put stock in the FAQ, though, it explicitly states that you can't.

(Bastard swords, like Mirror Image, seem to be something the FAQ has trouble with. The 3E Main FAQ still contains two contradictory answers about bastard swords.)

-Hyp.

 

[Bront]

There is another thread on this somewhere, for I know there's an LEW character (Sunny Perriwinkle run by two) who uses a Large Bastard Sword without the exotic weapon proficiency by taking the non-proficiency penalty and the size penalty (And personaly, that's a ruling I strongly disagree with, but it was't up to me).

 

[Hypersmurf]

There is another thread on this somewhere, for I know there's an LEW character (Sunny Perriwinkle run by two) who uses a Large Bastard Sword without the exotic weapon proficiency by taking the non-proficiency penalty and the size penalty (And personaly, that's a ruling I strongly disagree with, but it was't up to me).

That's the contradictory ruling in the 3E Main FAQ. In one answer, it says "If you don't have the EWP, you can't wield the sword in one hand", and in another, it says "If you don't have the EWP, you take a -4 penalty when you wield the sword in one hand".

-Hyp.

 

[Tatsukun]

There's a difference between using a weapon two-handed, and using a weapon as a two-handed weapon.

It should be noted that this is the subject of frequent major debate.

This core debate has taken place in many threads, from lances to power attack. Add this to the list!

-Tatsu

 

[Thanee]

I'd say that it works, but you get the -2 penalty for wielding an inappropriately sized weapon.

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

The bastard sword is a one-handed weapon for someone with the EWP, therefore a large bastard sword would be an inappropriately sized two-handed weapon then.

Without the proficiency, it is a two-handed weapon for the wielder and thus the large bastard sword is not wieldable.

Bye
Thanee

 

[glass]

IMO, whether you have the proficiency is irrelevant. It allows you to use it one handed. If you are not using it one handed it does not apply.

Regardless of how it is used and what feats you have for it, a bastard sword is a 1h weapon if appropriately sized, so it is a 2h weapon if one size to large, and can be wielded in two hands with the normal penalty.

Requiring the feat would make sense (in fact, it's probably what I'd do if the situation came up), but IMHO it would be a houserule.


glass.

 

[Thanee]

I think correctly, the bastard sword should have two entries...

two-handed martial weapon and one-handed exotic weapon

...and specify, that you cannot use the exotic entry (not even untrained) unless you possess the feat.

However, I think the part I put in bold up there makes clear, that the EWP feat is actually relevant, since it changes how the weapon is designated in relation to the wielder, and that designation is what is important.

Bye
Thanee