Raven Crowking
First Post
The Codex is an excellent book.
Weapon Speed
- Thread starter Water Bob
- Start date
Jimlock
Adventurer
yes. ...isn't that clear in my version? (i'm not trying to be an a-ss, i'm just curious because its difficult to judge one self...)
not really... see below...
chances of rolling 1 on a d6 is 16,6%
Now lets take a 6th lvl ranger with a shortsword in each hand. That means he gets three attacks, two with primary, 1 with the off hand.
Now lets say he manages to hit twice, no matter with which hand. Chances of rolling at least one 1 on 2d6 = 0,16x0,16 = 28%
This means that when he manages to hit twice, 1/3 he's gonna get an extra attack!!!
When all three attacks make it home the chances rise to 41%!!!!! (0,16x0,16x0,16) not bad!
Now chances for him to get both free attacks (from both hands) should be about 5% .... (that's a bit more difficult to calculate though... but i'm sure i'm not that wrong)
Now... 30% for 2/3 hits... 40% for 3/3 hits and a 5% for having two free attacks is not that bad IMO... actually if you add to all that the Str modifier and the precision damage (if any) it gets a little broken... And the speed weapons are suddenly far more potent than the rest!
Keep in mind that in greater levels where more attacks come into play the chances rise considerably!
IMHO...that way one manages to give the edge and flavor the light weapons required, without breaking the game by weakening bigger weapons in comparison.
As for the strength bonus, its not just a matter of game balance. It's logical as well. This free attack is not in anyway as powerful as the first. The weapon does not move away from the target so much as to profit from str and momentum. (i'd say...)
hmmmm i'm not sure. In my opinion you have to pull back your hand enough so as to be effective with it...that kinda of makes you lose time i think...
Even two handed piercing weapons are not as fast as you think. Pulling back with both hands makes you lose time. More strength involved and less speed. (with the exception of the katana ofcourse!!!)
Personally i would take out ANY two handed weapon... piercing damage doesn't make them faster to use.
AdmundfortGeographer
Getting lost in fantasy maps
A 1d4 weapon (like daggers), wielded two hands. 25% per dagger. Add in 18 Strength per dagger for a 1d4+4, you have a 25% chance for an additional +5 points of damage per dagger, with two-weapon fighting, and iterative attacks, it can become a good target for abusive builds.
Is there a class in Conan D20 that can make SRD monk-like flurry of blows?
Is there such a class that has SRD monk-like increasing unarmed strike damage that rises to multiple dice at higher levels?
It is. I'd love to try out its rules one day. I think they'd be quite fun. But so much of what the Codex offers is already in the Conan game.
I don't think it's worth the effort to change over to a completely new, albeit comatible, system.
It's got some extremely neat ideas, though.
You're not an ass at all. I just didn't quite follow your example.
But, you are forgetting the other qualifier. That 1 in 6 chance doesn't happen until after a hit is scored.
You have to consider the chance of scoring a hit and then combine that with the chance of rolling a "1" on the damage die.
Approaching a new combat, a warrior doesn't have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a Speed Attack when using a Speed weapon that does 1d6 damage. His chances are much lower because he must hit first.
The rule isn't play tested yet. I mention earlier in the thread that we've got to keep an eye on balance.
You don't want the Speed Rule to make it so light weapons are more attractive than some of the bigger weapons.
I'll have to disagree here. If I picture a guy with a big two-handed great sword, swinging it in those huge arcs, and a guy with a two-handed war spear, it's the war spear dude that will be quicker to get in two thrusts than the dude with the great sword. But, the great sword will do about as much damage on one blow as two from the war spear (in Conan, this is 2-18 great sword vs 2-20 two strikes from war spear).
Raven Crowking
First Post
Stuff like this is why I included a limit to Reactions, based on level (plus halflings gain +1 Reaction as a racial bonus.)
Again, you're not considering that the dagger user has to hit, too, in order to get the Speed Attack. It brings down the chances that a Speed Attack will occur considerably.
Not a core class. There is a (some say broken) Martial Disciple in a supplement book. Not sure if he has that feature or not, because I've never played 3E D&D.
If there is, it's the Martial Disciple. I'll have to read up on him.
I see your point. It's a good one. I don't think it applies to Conan (it might), but it certainly applies to D&D.
D&D DMs should beware of this possible balance issue and change their Speed Rule accordingly (maybe normal hand attacks are elligible but do not stack with monk-like feats...or some such).
kitcik
Adventurer
I'll chime in just for the heck of it, since we played a weapon speed variant in 1E of those many years ago.
I don't have the tables in front of me, and that was 30 years ago, but...
Essentially, we allowed weapons with speed factors of 1-3 to be used 3x per round, 4-5 2x per round and 6-10 1x per round. Weapons with speed factors > 10 were also 1x per round and additonally suffered an inititative penalty.
the order of attacks worked something like:
3x weapons, 1st attack, by initiative
3x weapons, 2nd attack + 2x weapons, 1st attack, by initiative
3x weapons, 3rd attack + 2x weapons, 2nd attack + 1x weapons, by initiative (slow 1x weapons suffer penalty, I forget how we did it).
It got a bit hairier when fighters got 3/2 and then 2 attacks per round, but it worked for us.
I don't have the tables in front of me, and that was 30 years ago, but...
Essentially, we allowed weapons with speed factors of 1-3 to be used 3x per round, 4-5 2x per round and 6-10 1x per round. Weapons with speed factors > 10 were also 1x per round and additonally suffered an inititative penalty.
the order of attacks worked something like:
3x weapons, 1st attack, by initiative
3x weapons, 2nd attack + 2x weapons, 1st attack, by initiative
3x weapons, 3rd attack + 2x weapons, 2nd attack + 1x weapons, by initiative (slow 1x weapons suffer penalty, I forget how we did it).
It got a bit hairier when fighters got 3/2 and then 2 attacks per round, but it worked for us.
Lots of good input on this thread. Lots of things to think about.
So far, here's where my Speed Rule lies....
ELLIGIBLE WEAPONS (also known as Speed Weapons):
One-Handed weapons and two-handed piercing weapons. (These are weapons that can be used in a quick fashion for a rapid attack.)
Unarmed attacks are considered elligible speed weapons.
Character must have proficiency. (You can't make a Speed Attack if you're not familiar with the use of the weapon.)
Weapon must have a single damage die. (Weapons that feature two or more damage dice are considered too bulky, unbalanced, or un-wieldly for a Speed Attack.)
SPEED ATTACK:
When a "1" is rolled for damage after a successful hit with a Speed Weapon, the character is allowed to make a Speed Attack. This attack is a Free Action that must be made against against the same target using the same weapon and the same modifiers. It is a quick, double jab of the weapon. Resolve the Speed Attack as a normal attack using the same damage modifiers as the original attack.
So far, here's where my Speed Rule lies....
ELLIGIBLE WEAPONS (also known as Speed Weapons):
One-Handed weapons and two-handed piercing weapons. (These are weapons that can be used in a quick fashion for a rapid attack.)
Unarmed attacks are considered elligible speed weapons.
Character must have proficiency. (You can't make a Speed Attack if you're not familiar with the use of the weapon.)
Weapon must have a single damage die. (Weapons that feature two or more damage dice are considered too bulky, unbalanced, or un-wieldly for a Speed Attack.)
SPEED ATTACK:
When a "1" is rolled for damage after a successful hit with a Speed Weapon, the character is allowed to make a Speed Attack. This attack is a Free Action that must be made against against the same target using the same weapon and the same modifiers. It is a quick, double jab of the weapon. Resolve the Speed Attack as a normal attack using the same damage modifiers as the original attack.
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Jimlock
Adventurer
I'm not forgetting about the other qualifier... I gave an example for the ranger striking 1/3, 2/3 and 3/3... and i gave you the percentage... for every case.
Now there is no reason to calculate the % for both the 1 and the hit as well...(not only there is no reason... but the math get complicated...
)It's only normal to assume that "in general" the ranger is likely hit once or twice with those 3 attacks he has...and the % for taking this extra attack are really good as they are IMO..
That's why i'm removing the Str and precision damage...
that's what i said as well.....once you see people fancying small weapons more than big ones... you know the rule is broken.
You should compare a dagger or a short sword with that two handed war spear... Then you'll see how giving them both the extra attack is not correct.
I insist that two handed war spears are not as fast as you think. The "pull-back" is quite tiresome and lengthy. Piercing damage requires significant pull back if the weapon is heavy. A second thrust at close distance is ineffective. That fancy stuff in 300 are not very real...
Raven Crowking
First Post
I'm not sure if the Conan rules include a monk (or monk-type class), but they should. REH's Conan stories certainly did.
RC
RC
