D&D General What elements does D&D need to keep?

[ART!]

Remove the specialist and you can't play the everymade many want to RP as.

My blacksmith can't be an adventurer anymore.

Because there is not class for them to be.

The blacksmith doesn't know spells nor how to fight at a high proficiency.

So if your blacksmith's or farmer's village is burned down by a dragon, there is no class for him to take for revenge if all the specialists are gone.

Adventurers by definition are one (or more) of the classes. The blacksmith can head out with some arms and armor they've made, as a fighter, or with righteous vengeance as a paladin, etc.

 

[jmartkdr2]

One thing I didn't see on the list was the divide between divine and arcane magic. i.e. Gotta make sure Wizards can't cast healing spells. I don't know if D&D was the first work of fiction to distinguish magic in that manner but I consider it a quintessential D&Dism.

I'd rephrase this as "there are different kinds of magic," which is a strong DnD-ism.

Although it's not explicit, (outside of 4e) the rules have always implied that different kinds of spellcasters are doing different things when they cast: a cleric and a wizard casting detect magic aren't performing the same action; they're using two different tools to do the same job. The result is the same, but the process is different. DnD introduced this idea when the cleric class go added, and until 5th each edition expanded on it.

Most fantasy settings go the other way: magic is magic, and different casters are only different in style or focus, but they're all doing the same thing. TV tropes calls this "Magic A is Magic A," and it's common writing advice. But I would call it bad advice for designing a broad fantasy game.

 

[jmartkdr2]

They should be like warlocks, then, with something akin to Invocations.

Personally, I think rangers should be like that as well--skip the spells, just give them bits of ranger knowledge which are structured like Invocations in how they're laid out.

The only class that really shouldn't be like this is wizards (and non-casters).

 

[ART!]

Mutilclassing, like feats, deities, and cosmologies are more like core options. Not default in D&D for the feel but should be official supported by D&D.

I agree with all that. I like multiclassing and feats, a lot, but they definitely aren't essential. I couldn't care less about the cosmological stuff - unless our table decides it's important for the setting, adventure, or whatever.

I'd rephrase this as "there are different kinds of magic," which is a strong DnD-ism.

Although it's not explicit, (outside of 4e) the rules have always implied that different kinds of spellcasters are doing different things when they cast: a cleric and a wizard casting detect magic aren't performing the same action; they're using two different tools to do the same job. The result is the same, but the process is different. DnD introduced this idea when the cleric class go added, and until 5th each edition expanded on it.

Most fantasy settings go the other way: magic is magic, and different casters are only different in style or focus, but they're all doing the same thing. TV tropes calls this "Magic A is Magic A," and it's common writing advice. But I would call it bad advice for designing a broad fantasy game.

I really want divine magic to be as different as possible from arcane magic. There would be exceptions - like when you get into warlock patrons, certain sorcerous origins, and probably some specific spells. I guess it depends on how deities work in the setting. Are they just really powerful users of arcane magic, are they their own source of power, etc.

 

[Minigiant]

Adventurers by definition are one (or more) of the classes. The blacksmith can head out with some arms and armor they've made, as a fighter, or with righteous vengeance as a paladin, etc.

I don't think d&d assumed easy entrance into a class.

A blacksmith can't just become a fighter. He has to train for years to learn to.

If it were so easy then wizards could learn learn swordsmanship with ease or multiclassing would be core.

Part of D&D is that you have some sort of training in a class before level 2.

D&D is not a skills based game where anyone can just become anything. For a blacksmith to be a cleric, he needs to join the church or have some deity bless him directly. He can't go "You killed my daddy. I'm a cleric of the forge now. Rawr!".

A blacksmith cannot pick up a sword and have equal or better weapon stats than a level 1 fighter who squired under a knight for 5 years.

 

[Vaalingrade]

For a blacksmith to be a cleric, he needs to join the church or have some deity bless him directly. He can't go "You killed my daddy. I'm a cleric of the forge now. Rawr!".

Godless clerics have been a thing for over 20 years now though.

 

[ART!]

I don't think d&d assumed easy entrance into a class.

A blacksmith can't just become a fighter. He has to train for years to learn to.

If it were so easy then wizards could learn learn swordsmanship with ease or multiclassing would be core.

Part of D&D is that you have some sort of training in a class before level 2.

D&D is not a skills based game where anyone can just become anything. For a blacksmith to be a cleric, he needs to join the church or have some deity bless him directly. He can't go "You killed my daddy. I'm a cleric of the forge now. Rawr!".

A blacksmith cannot pick up a sword and have equal or better weapon stats than a level 1 fighter who squired under a knight for 5 years.

I think this is much less of a thing that it has been. My most recent character was a cleric who had no formal training at all, but Tymora had just really taken a liking to him - because he was a person who lived his life moment-to-moment, trusting luck completely, etc. - and granted him cleric features, insight into how prayers/spells work, etc. There's any number of similar origins one could come up with.

 

[Minigiant]

Godless clerics have been a thing for over 20 years now though.

I'm not talking about godless clerics.

I'm talking about normal folk simply becoming fighters, wizards, and clerics with no training.

 

[billd91]

I'm not talking about godless clerics.

I'm talking about normal folk simply becoming fighters, wizards, and clerics with no training.

The presumption is pretty much an ex post facto explanation - if the blacksmith has taken off to a life of adventure as a fighter, he's had some training that's appropriate. Multiclass later in your adventuring career, the assumption is that the PC has picked up some exposure to the new class in the meantime. It's ideal if they explicitly play that out some, but without it, we make the assumption.

 

[Minigiant]

I think this is much less of a thing that it has been. My most recent character was a cleric who had no formal training at all, but Tymora had just really taken a liking to him - because he was a person who lived his life moment-to-moment, trusting luck completely, etc. - and granted him cleric features, insight into how prayers/spells work, etc. There's any number of similar origins one could come up with.

That idea is more of an exception than the rule.

It's why the whole "strip the classes down to 3 or 4" idea rarely pans out for long. It's very limiting on possible PCs types unless the DM adds classes or house rules OR allows players to all run unicorns.

The presumption is pretty much an ex post facto explanation - if the blacksmith has taken off to a life of adventure as a fighter, he's had some training that's appropriate. Multiclass later in your adventuring career, the assumption is that the PC has picked up some exposure to the new class in the meantime. It's ideal if they explicitly play that out some, but without it, we make the assumption.

Indeed, the assumption is the blacksmith took some training. The issue is the off the streets rough adventurer.

There is a mild controversy over whether all PCs are trained professionals or are many lucky normal folk who apply their background knowledge to the adventuring party.

Saying a limited roster of classes is essential to the feel of D&D limits the available backgrounds of common adventurers.