D&D 5E Why does Wizards of the Coast hate Wizards?

[DND_Reborn]

Come on now, it's a bit better than 50/50.

LOL that was your wording not mine. I did the math for disintegrate and checked on the save for ogres vs. a INT 18 caster at a level to cast 6th level spells.

And don't bring other spells into it. The idea was yours for ogre vs. sleep, right?

My point was spells should scale as cantrips do without the need to upcast them. It is a horrible aspect of 5E IMO.

 

[Ashrym]

LOL that was your wording not mine. I did the math for disintegrate and checked on the save for ogres vs. a INT 18 caster at a level to cast 6th level spells.

And don't bring other spells into it. The idea was yours for ogre vs. sleep, right?

My point was spells should scale as cantrips do without the need to upcast them. It is a horrible aspect of 5E IMO.

It wasn't my idea. It was a response to someone who wanted to use sleep to stop an ogre. Technically, sleep can stop an ogre. Use an 8th or 9th level slot and chances are pretty good. It was also an opportunity to demonstrate how limited sleep actually is with the level requirement to get that hp total.

 

[DND_Reborn]

It wasn't my idea. It was a response to someone who wanted to use sleep to stop an ogre. Technically, sleep can stop an ogre. Use an 8th or 9th level slot and chances are pretty good. It was also an opportunity to demonstrate how limited sleep actually is with the level requirement to get that hp total.

Fine. FWIW a 5th level slot makes it almost exactly 50/50.

 

[Ashrym]

Fine. FWIW a 5th level slot makes it almost exactly 50/50.

And to reinforce the point, hold monster would work better, and casting firebolt would be fine because a party of 11th level characters can wreck 59 hp 11 AC monsters.

 

[Salthorae]

To be fair... I've used sleep to end Ogre fights more than once!

 

[Ashrym]

@Salthorae the original comment was referring to not as a finishing move, like the power of 1e sleep. Sleep was the ogre killer back then.

 

[Salthorae]

@Salthorae the original comment was referring to not as a finishing move, like the power of 1e sleep. Sleep was the ogre killer back then.

Ahh, in the flurry of posts over the weekend I missed that one. Thanks.

 

[Mistwell]

And it is a sad fact IMO that you have to "upcast" sleep using a 6th level slot just to have a 50/50 shot. Absolutely pathetic.

Cast Disintegrate instead and you have about an 80% chance of defeating the ogre (assuming you don't want to keep him alive, that is...).


Very rarely have I found it to be worth it. Occasionally, sure, but not often.

I mean, Eyebite does this directly as a 6th level spell. But I'd prefer to magic jar that guy, use him to attack his allies, and pop back out before he dies.

 

[Hussar]

/snip

My point was spells should scale as cantrips do without the need to upcast them. It is a horrible aspect of 5E IMO.

Very much disagree with this. The scaling of spells led directly to the whole LFQW problems in earlier editions. Not only did your wizard get more powerful spells but most of the spells he cast got more powerful too. Kinda made sense when your wizard only had at the absolute outside, maybe a dozen spell slots per day. But in 5e, where casters have so many slots, allowing each of those slots to also power up on level up is way too much.

I find the upcasting mechanics a very elegant solution. Does it work 100% of the time? Perhaps not, but, it does work most of the time. You want a more powerful effect? Cast the spell at higher level (whether an actually higher level spell or upcasting) .

Personally, I think cantrips might actually level up too quickly. Not so much for wizards, but, for clerics and druids, it turns them both into pew pew casters too often.

 

[Ashrym]

I find the upcasting mechanics a very elegant solution. Does it work 100% of the time? Perhaps not, but, it does work most of the time.

I find it's incredibly important with spells known limitations.