D&D 5E Zard's S Tier Archetypes

[dave2008]

Woah, dude. I never called anyone out of touch. It’s 100% ok with me that some people here haven’t heard of letter-ranked tiers. I’m surprised, but I’m not judging anyone. Chill.

It reminds of when my wife is surprised by uneducated conservative* opinions because most of our associates are highly educated liberals. I have to remind her about half the population is a conservative and our level of education is actually a minority (in the USA anyway).

*just want to be clear, I am not saying conservative opinions are uneducated. I am saying the opinions of someone who is both uneducated and conservative.

 

[Charlaquin]

It reminds of when my wife is surprised by uneducated conservative* opinions because most of our associates are highly educated liberals. I have to remind her about half the population is a conservative and our level of education is actually a minority (in the USA anyway).

*just want to be clear, I am not saying conservative opinions are uneducated. I am saying the opinions of someone who is both uneducated and conservative.

Yeah, that seems like a fair comparison.

 

[Flamestrike]

I would refer you back to substantive part of my post you didn't bother to quote.

'Which class is better when they can reliably get a long rest in between most encounters?' is a totally different question to 'which class is better when the adventuring day consists of around 6 encounters and around 2 short rests?'

• If you can reliably nova via the DM being unable or unwilling to police the adventuring day, and it routinely consisting of a single encounter, then long rest dependent classes and subclasses are better (for obvious reasons).
• If your DM does police the adventuring day and roughly cleaves to the (6 or so encounter/ 2 or so short rest) median, then classes more or less balance out.
• If your DM routinely pushes longer adventuring days (via gritty rest variants or whatever) where long rests are rare, and short rests quite common, then Short rest dependent classes and subclasses are better (for obvious reasons).

Classes gain the majority of their oomph via short and long rest resources (spell slots, Ki points, rages, SP, superiority die, wild shapes channel divinity, second wind, action surge, indomitable, Bardic inspiration etc) and some classes are very short rest dependent, while others are very long rest dependent (with the Rogue being largely rest neutral).

You cant meaningfully discuss which class (or subclass) is 'more powerful' without that context, and it varies from table to table depending largely on the DM's management of the adventuring day (and of course, player skill).

 

[dave2008]

Yeah, that seems like a fair comparison.

However, I just checked the stats and the % of people in the US that play videogames is staggering (according to my quick google-fu). Given I know almost no "gamers" I was floored by the number. Now, what % are serious gamers and how many play games with this type of ranking I don't know, but I am willing to believe it is significantly above the 8% of people (in the US) that have a masters level education!

 

[TwoSix]

However, I just checked the stats (according to my quick google-fu) and the % of people in the US that play videogames is staggering. Given I know almost no "gamers" I was floored by the number. Now, what % are serious gamers and how many play games with this type of ranking I don't know, but I am willing to believe it is significantly above the 8% of people (in the US) that have a masters level education!

Discussing video games is pretty much a lingua franca among people under 30 in the US, and is something that's only been exacerbated by the pandemic.

 

[Mistwell]

Everyone knows what S tier means.

It reminds of when my wife is surprised by uneducated conservative* opinions because most of our associates are highly educated liberals. I have to remind her about half the population is a conservative and our level of education is actually a minority (in the USA anyway).

*just want to be clear, I am not saying conservative opinions are uneducated. I am saying the opinions of someone who is both uneducated and conservative.

Yeah, that seems like a fair comparison.

Tell me again how your tone isn't elitist in nature? Or...can you really not see that choosing as a "fair comparison" to compare people to an uneducated political group (a group which in particular is on the outs at the moment) is a "fair comparison"?

 

[Charlaquin]

Discussing video games is pretty much a lingua franca among people under 30 in the US, and is something that's only been exacerbated by the pandemic.

Yeah, saying “I don’t play video games” is a bit like saying “I don’t watch TV.” Like, ok, I can totally respect that choice, but it seems strange to me that you would want to isolate yourself from an entire form of media that’s pretty nearly ubiquitously, at least in the US.

 

[Mistwell]

Discussing video games is pretty much a lingua franca among people under 30 in the US, and is something that's only been exacerbated by the pandemic.

It's not all, or even most, video games where that tier system comes up. It's limited to games where 1) you play a particular character, and 2) your choice of character is among many choices, and 3) some character choices are considered inherently more powerful than other choices, while others are considered average, and still others are considered weaker than other choices.

That's a subset of a subset of video games.

 

[Mistwell]

Yeah, saying “I don’t play video games” is a bit like saying “I don’t watch TV.” Like, ok, I can totally respect that choice, but it seems strange to me that you would want to isolate yourself from an entire form of media that’s pretty nearly ubiquitously, at least in the US.

Nobody said "I don't play video games" and that's a strawman.

The Tier system isn't applicable to MOST video games.

 

[dave2008]

Tell me again how your tone isn't elitist in nature? Or...can you really not see that choosing as a "fair comparison" to compare people to an uneducated political group (a group which in particular is on the outs at the moment) is a "fair comparison"?

Did you not seem my foot note:

"*just want to be clear, I am not saying conservative opinions are uneducated. I am saying the opinions of someone who is both uneducated and conservative."

I was not claiming conservative people are uneducated. I know very well that is not the case. I was specifically talking about a group that is two steps different from my general associates. People who are both conservative and uneducated tend have different experiences and viewpoints from my wife and me.

Furthermore, I don't presume some superiority of either group. It was about a difference of experience, not an issue of superiority or elitism.