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D&D 5E fighters and wizards both getting new toys?

I suspect we won't see crunch-focused splatbooks for an incredibly simple reason...

...if DDI includes a 5E character builder, then very few people who belong to DDI will bother buying the splatbooks. Cause they're going to get the crunch in the CB anyway.

Now, if you include new crunch within a campaign setting book, or an information book like the Wilderness Survival Guide, or a mega-adventure book... you are more likely to get at least some of those players to buy the book, because they're getting a bunch of fluff and story stuff in addition to the crunch that they wouldn't ordinarily get through the DDI programs.

I know personally... every single one of the "XXX Power" books I bought and owned for 4E was opened and used maybe once. After that, all the information in them after that point was only used by me via DDI... so I pretty much didn't need to buy those books at all. And this was doubly true for both Adventurer's Vault products. Had I realized this at the time, I wouldn't have bought those books. And many other books after that I didn't buy, specifically because of that reason.

If DDI will provide all the crunch to all the subscribers, then releasing books that are nothing but crunch makes those books superfluous to those people. And that ain't the best use of their printing and time I don't think.

The difference is, with DDI you are only renting access to the content, not buying it. That access only lasts as long as WOTC feels like sharing it. Unless the content is downloadable and available offline, you are renting, not buying your material.
 

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The difference is, with DDI you are only renting access to the content, not buying it. That access only lasts as long as WOTC feels like sharing it. Unless the content is downloadable and available offline, you are renting, not buying your material.

Yeah, so? Doesn't change the point. People who join DDI aren't worried about that. But WotC probably *is* worried that those people have no need to buy the books. At least not until the online tools do possibly get shut off like a decade down the line... but at that point they can just buy the books used from Amazon or a FLGS at probably a fraction of the price if they really need them that badly.
 

It's better to sell 10 PHBs than 7 PHBs and 5 splat books. Because ultimately, the extra PHBs turn into more players, who eventually buy 7 more PHBs. The splatbook treadmill is great in the short term, but turns off a lot of players long-term. It's easier to maintain the core books as evergreen products if there isn't a huge library of splatbooks being associated with them, and players who are all playing a game with options that are hardly recognizable relative to the core books.

This is why I think, long-term, adventures, settings, and support products are better than splatbooks.

While this might be true it is equally plausible that a more complete game with more options is more interesting and will be played by more people, leading to more overall sales. I wouldn't bet on one over the other. Nor would I automatically assume that the audiences for all games work the same way. D&D may have different market dynamics than a smaller indie game or a clone.
 

Bad in what regard? Complete Book of Elves had a bunch of broken kits, both over- and under-powered.

But the Complete Bard's Handbook was great. It started with a discussion of how the class was built and broke it down into four(?) key abilities. Then it presented a variety of flavorful takes on the bard that presented their own combination of 4 key abilities in place of those of the standard bard. Each kit was full of fluff and balanced well against the abilities of the standard bard. I have trouble even calling the result a bunch of kits, because what they really did was build a bunch of classes that rested on the same chassis.

I don't know about the later 2e 'Complete' series splatbooks, but in general the 2e splatbook mechanics were pretty lame. Even the first 4 were pretty uneven. The material wasn't written very clearly, a lot of it overlapped and often contradicted or worked poorly with elements of the core books, and frankly a LOT of it was just dead end stuff that nobody would likely ever use because it was either too much trouble or simply not effective. The entirety of the priest book fell into the later category, the classes produced using it were INEVITABLY too much weaker than a Cleric to attract any but some unusual player, which put the DM in the position of his custom classes almost never being played.

The fighter and thief books just needed mostly better implementation and suffered a lot from the fact that the AD&D core rules were so scattershot that it was hard to coherently add onto them.

As for wizards, I don't think they needed the help. Anything they added there was bound to just give the class of all options even more options. It wasn't that the ideas were inherently bad at all, but ANY implementation detracted from the game in some sense.

Flavor-wise I thought there was some good stuff in all of these books. OTOH a lot of it was pretty cliched kind of silliness. I liked some, and just rolled my eyes at a lot of it. That's probably just my taste though. Overall they weren't bad books. HOWEVER I don't think they sold for squat. Maybe TSR published way too many of them, but the last time I checked the FLGS in Burlington VT STILL HAS NEW COPIES of some of these books in a niche at the back of the store!!! They certainly sat on display racks gathering dust all through the 90's and beyond. I'm sure us really active players bought at least some of them, but I think the sales overall weren't that good.
 


In fact, customization is such a small thing in 2E that not all splat brokeness in the world would be enough to really screw someone's game. Not even the much maligned bladesinger managed to wreak havoc into our games (in fact, to this day, when a player wants to be a bladesinger in my games, I tell him that I'm used to enforce the kit hindrances as described, and this is usually enough to discourage him).

In later editions, though, splat book customization takes the spotlight. See, fighting with two weapons is supposed to be ++ good, but here is this feat/prestige class that makes it +++++ good. Wild shape is also supposed to be +++ good, but here we have this feat that makes it +++++++++ good.

I know, for instance, that some of our DMs would look at Combat & Tactics weapon mastery rules and say "no way I'm letting all this brokeness into my game". One edition latter, improved critical range and increased weapon damage die had become bread and butter of any fighter worth his name, experienced players knew where to find the real gems.

I still want to see the numbers. I'm not totally convinced that a model based in selling rules bloat makes for a healthier business than a model based in selling adventures and campaign options. For everything I've seen from Mearls, it looks like WotC wants to try their hand in the second model now, since they've done a lot of the first for the last 15 years with mixed results.
 


In fact, customization is such a small thing in 2E that not all splat brokeness in the world would be enough to really screw someone's game. Not even the much maligned bladesinger managed to wreak havoc into our games (in fact, to this day, when a player wants to be a bladesinger in my games, I tell him that I'm used to enforce the kit hindrances as described, and this is usually enough to discourage him).

In later editions, though, splat book customization takes the spotlight. See, fighting with two weapons is supposed to be ++ good, but here is this feat/prestige class that makes it +++++ good. Wild shape is also supposed to be +++ good, but here we have this feat that makes it +++++++++ good.

I know, for instance, that some of our DMs would look at Combat & Tactics weapon mastery rules and say "no way I'm letting all this brokeness into my game". One edition latter, improved critical range and increased weapon damage die had become bread and butter of any fighter worth his name, experienced players knew where to find the real gems.

I still want to see the numbers. I'm not totally convinced that a model based in selling rules bloat makes for a healthier business than a model based in selling adventures and campaign options. For everything I've seen from Mearls, it looks like WotC wants to try their hand in the second model now, since they've done a lot of the first for the last 15 years with mixed results.

Actually there were some VERY broken things in the 2e supplements. The thing is that by the nature of 2e it was SORT OF moot. At low levels you could use some of the kits and some various tricks to do some stupidly sick things, compared with other level 1 PCs. However, 99% of it was things that were GOOD, but just being a wizard was already so over the top that by 7th level none of the tricky dicky stuff you could do with splatbook X really measured up to just being a human wizard or an elf fighter/wizard. On top of that the magic item lotto was so variable in its possible results that even pretty good starting builds were quickly swamped out. No amount of cheese could make a fighter that was as good as a basic 'unoptimized' 2e fighter with Gauntlets of Ogre Power. The cheese was also pretty smelly due to how tightly flavor and rules were tied together. You could be a dart throwing machine-gun but it was a lot more lame than some 4e optimization where your charges just really kick ass.

I don't know about the whole splat vs adventure thing. I think WotC has seen Paizo kick their asses in the market and they are just trying to emulate what they can of a successful model. Frankly I'm not sure the two companies are comparable and that what works for one will work for the other. Paizo has always had excellent writing and atmosphere in their products for whatever reason. They seem quite open and creative and they don't seem to worry too much about grand product plans and things. They just do what is cool. WotC is too deliberate, they have a PRODUCT LINE and a strategy and every adventure and book fits into some larger scheme. I think they can't achieve the level of spontaneousness that makes Paizo's strategy work for them. They may well find that, for them, the 'write lots of adventures and setting stuff' strategy will fail even worse than the 'pump out splatbooks' strategy of 4e.

Not that I want you to be wrong especially. I think 4e had far too few good adventures and anemic settings, which wasn't a good thing in the long run. I'm just not sure WotC can pull it off.
 
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Were the 2e class books really that light on crunch though? Every one of them had about twenty kits- all with some crunch. New spells and magic items. There's an awful lot of crunch in the 2e class books.

I went back and took a look at the Complete Fighter's Handbook, Complete Thief's Handbook, and Complete Book of Dwarves for perspective.

They do have more crunch than I remember. Also, like most TSR products, I wouldn't consider them up to today's quality standards. But I think there is something in the philosophy, and even the type of crunch that made it less dominant.

It seems that the philosophy was primarily about how to implement that class/race more fully and completely in your campaign. "Here's everything you need to know about dwarves to play a solid dwarven campaign."

The type of crunch tended to focus more on world simulation than offering new powers. I found kits really interesting reads--although I didn't like them mechanically. For most of them, the drawbacks seemed more restrictive than the meager benefits. (As I said, not up to modern quality standards.) But the flavor and campaign ideas I got from reading through them was great. And kits were at least as much fluff as they were crunch. A list of which proficiencies or secondary skills were required or recommended (maybe forbidden also), and the remaining mechanics fit within a single column of a 3 column page, with probably 2 to 4 additional columns of fluff. So that's around 1/5 to 1/3 of a kit being crunch.

The fighter book, the first in the series, had a ton of combat options that expanded the game (this is where levels of weapon specialization debuted). The books after that didn't follow that particular model, probably because the fighter had already handled it. The thief's book seemed to have less crunch, and again, it was stuff particular to a thief like campaign, and it felt really embedded in the world and campaign, rather than a simple list of cool stuff for player or DM.

The dwarf book was great. The sorts of crunch it included were things like optional ways of distinguishing subraces (and the introduction or reintroduction of a couple subraces), and things like dwarven siege weaponry. Stuff that really helps a dwarven culture come alive. And of course, the reason it helps so much is that it was deeply embedded in the campaign and world discussion.

There were also tables for randomly determining things in the thief and dwarf books (didn't notice it in the fighter's book, but I bet there was at least one).

That being said, they weren't all created equally. Of the books I had, I think the Complete Priest's Handbook was the weakest. But then, I felt the same way about the Complete Divine in 3e. Something seems to make good divine splatbooks hard to do in D&D.

Contrast that level and type of fluff with 3e splatbooks.

In the Complete Arcane, there are 53 pages of nothing but prestige classes. Because they are so tied to the crunch of the class, even reading the class fluff didn't inspire me the way it did in the 2e books, where you could skip the crunch and just adopt fluff on the kits for greater immersion. Then we come to what would have been the jewel in the 2e splats: the ____ campaign. The Complete Arcane's campaign chapter is a solid 27 pages long, and glancing over it, it seems to have decent content. Why don't I like it? I can't say. Too little too late, maybe? Feels like an afterthought instead of a focus perhaps? I honestly am not sure, but I can say that it didn't feel worth it to me that way 2e splatbooks did.

Some of it's just nostalgia, granted. But I think what we should be considering is that when we talk about 2e splatbooks, what people remember is the fluff. When we talk about 3e splatbooks what people remember is prestige classes and feats. I think that says something.

I hold out hope that D&D has learned its lesson on splatbooks and intends to keep its profits flowing through leveraging of the brand name instead.

The main drawback is whether this would lead to layoffs after publication.

Yeah. Transmedia can be a great boon if it keeps crunch bloat of the tabletop game under control. I still shake my head when I look at the list of some of the layoffs that WotC did. I mean, Jeff Grubb? In the TSR era it seemed like his name was on the cover of half or more of the books that came out. What were they thinking?
 

Into the Woods

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