D&D 5E D&D 5e Basic Set: Things that make you go "what?!"

[Pickles JG]

I would suggest just rolling damage with advantage on the damage roll. That way you get the higher damage average without having to re-roll anything.

Actually rolling an extra die & dropping the lowest makes both 1d12 & 2d6 average about 8.5 (1d12 8.49, 2d6 8.46).

That would differentiate GWF from Duellist while giving about the same benefit & mesh with the advantage principle.

The current benefit is pretty sad.

 

[amerigoV]

The Sleep spell caught my attention -- twice.

On the first read: Ok, I will most likely be a infrequent player/GM for D&D going forward (my group has moved on overall). So I am looking at this version to see if they alleviated some of the things the our group came to dislike with 3rd and 4th (what little we played). So I wander through the PDF I am really digging what they have done. They really cut down on the "fiddly" of the prior editions. I presume the monsters are retaining some of their 4e "lets make the system usable for the GM" focus as well. Overall, I am getting excited by this new version.

That is until I hit the Sleep spell. Its like they took all the fiddly and stuffed it into that spell - roll 5d8 and start subtracting current HPs of the critters. If cast right at the start of the fight it might not be bad (ok, you rolled 20, and each goblin has 4 HPs, so 5 go down). But ugh, messy if cast in the fight after some HPs have come off the totals.

But then thinking on it and reading it again this morning: Was Sleep written this way in the playtest? This spell is much more powerful than pre-4e (I did not play enough 4e to know how good it is). As long as a critter is not immune to Charm you just beat on it until it has around 20-30 HPs and Sleep it. No save. I did not see a Coup de Gras rule in the Basic, but even if the DM is strick that still means everyone can gather round and get a free attack on a prone sleeping creature. Kinda feels like an anticlimatic finisher for the BBEG. If I am understanding the magic rules, the Wizard could then just Sleep the beast again if it somehow still has HPs after the first attempt to finish it off (and they have an open slot).

(lets be honest with ourselves - one of the players will know the relative HP level of some of the big bad critters - I guess Giants will need their own Bag or Rats so the sleep spell knocks them out first ).

In the end, this might be OK as it keeps the Sleep relevant even at high levels. As a DM it would be fun to Sleep a high level party that is on the edge of a TPK and finish them off with a Sleep spell.


But otherwise 5e looks like a lean, mean system!

 

[Nebulous]

I would suggest just rolling damage with advantage on the damage roll. That way you get the higher damage average without having to re-roll anything.

But, but...what if you roll 2d12 and rolls 1s and 2s anyway? I hate to waste a critical hit on piddly damage, it defeats the purpose of the Crit. I like the playtest rule of max damage on one die, then roll the second die for extra.

 

[Nebulous]

The Sleep spell caught my attention -- twice.


But then thinking on it and reading it again this morning: Was Sleep written this way in the playtest? This spell is much more powerful than pre-4e (I did not play enough 4e to know how good it is). As long as a critter is not immune to Charm you just beat on it until it has around 20-30 HPs and Sleep it. No save. I did not see a Coup de Gras rule in the Basic, but even if the DM is strick that still means everyone can gather round and get a free attack on a prone sleeping creature. Kinda feels like an anticlimatic finisher for the BBEG. If I am understanding the magic rules, the Wizard could then just Sleep the beast again if it somehow still has HPs after the first attempt to finish it off (and they have an open slot).

(lets be honest with ourselves - one of the players will know the relative HP level of some of the big bad critters - I guess Giants will need their own Bag or Rats so the sleep spell knocks them out first ).

In the end, this might be OK as it keeps the Sleep relevant even at high levels. As a DM it would be fun to Sleep a high level party that is on the edge of a TPK and finish them off with a Sleep spell.


But otherwise 5e looks like a lean, mean system!

Huh. There is no saving throw to resist the Sleep. The only math is rolling the 5-40 hp pool and subtraction. Oh wow but players would WHINE if they got no save to resist this. All in all i really don't mind it as written, it is incredibly useful. It also guarantees that when your wizard casts it, the spell WILL work so you can bank on the results.

 

[Blackbrrd]

But, but...what if you roll 2d12 and rolls 1s and 2s anyway? I hate to waste a critical hit on piddly damage, it defeats the purpose of the Crit. I like the playtest rule of max damage on one die, then roll the second die for extra.

I kind of agree, at the same time, this is one of the easiest rules to house-rule.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Huh. There is no saving throw to resist the Sleep. The only math is rolling the 5-40 hp pool and subtraction. Oh wow but players would WHINE if they got no save to resist this. All in all i really don't mind it as written, it is incredibly useful. It also guarantees that when your wizard casts it, the spell WILL work so you can bank on the results.

I don't really like no-save, no attack spells. At the same time, I think this spell is really cool. Will have to see it in play before I decide.

 

[Emerikol]

Sleep scales really well too.

I would have thought it made more sense if it used max target hit points.

It's basically a pretty awesome ninth level spell especially if you want to capture and not kill.

 

[TwoSix]

I never liked rerolling damage either. We always houseruled (for example) that a 1-2-3 becomes a 4 on the d12, no need to reroll, you just get a 4 minimum.

Hmm. I think in my game, instead of rerolling damage, great weapon fighting will let you rerolling attacks. But a rerolled attack will only do Str mod damage.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Huh. There is no saving throw to resist the Sleep. The only math is rolling the 5-40 hp pool and subtraction. Oh wow but players would WHINE if they got no save to resist this. All in all i really don't mind it as written, it is incredibly useful. It also guarantees that when your wizard casts it, the spell WILL work so you can bank on the results.

Players would, I agree, but that just means using it with care and good taste against them, and avoiding stuff like "6 Wizards appear, they have Surprise and are all casting Sleep!" as an excuse to get them into a dungeon or whatever. (Shades of "The Azure Bonds", which had a pretty cheese-tastic and eyeroll-inducing encounter to capture the PCs).

It's always best to put the PCs in a situation where they have nobody to blame but themselves, like they hear there is an amazing treasure in the Halls of the Sleepmaster and his apprentices... they better be ready for some ZZZZZ action...

 

[evileeyore]

I would suggest just rolling damage with advantage on the damage roll. That way you get the higher damage average without having to re-roll anything.

Actually rolling an extra die & dropping the lowest makes both 1d12 & 2d6 average about 8.5 (1d12 8.49, 2d6 8.46).

That would differentiate GWF from Duellist while giving about the same benefit & mesh with the advantage principle.

The current benefit is pretty sad.

YOINKED!