D&D 5E D&D 5e Basic Set: Things that make you go "what?!"

[Leatherhead]

but it requires you to be holding a shield.

I think the reason is to give a bonus for actually using a shield instead of a great weapon or two weapons.

 

[pemerton]

Greataxe definitely sucks now, with the critical hit rule confirmed, and Great Weapon Fighting Style changed

Does the GWF rule apply to each individual die of a 2d6 weapon? (That would seem to be the most natural reading.)

The expected value for 1d12 with GWF is 5/6 * 7.5 + 1/6 * 6.5 = (37.5 + 6.5)/6 = 44/6 = 7 1/3.

The expected value for 1d6 with GWF is 2/3 * 4.5 + 1/3 * 3.5 = (9 + 3.5)/3 = 12.5/3 = 4 1/6. So the expected damage for a GWF greatsword is 8 1/3.

When this last came up, the greater spike damage of 1d12 was said to be its benefit over 2d6.

The likelihood of 12 damage with a 1d12 and GWF is 5/6 * 0.1 + 1/6 * 1/12 = 1/12 + 1/72 = 7/72 which is a little less than 1 in 10.

The likelihood of a 6 with a 1d6 and GWF is 2/3 * 0.25 + 1/3 * 1/6 = 1/6 + 1/18 = 4/18 = 2/9. So the likelihood of getting two of them is 4/81 which is a little less than 1 in 20.

Unmodified, the chances of spike damage are 1 in 12 and 1 in 36. So GWF changes the odds of spike damage from 3:1 in favour of the axe, to around 2:1.

I don't really think this adds much to the game.

If you interpret GWF as applying to a greatsword only on snake eyes, then the expected damage value is 35/36 * 250/35 + 1/36*7 = 257/36 = 7 5/36. This is probably better balanced, so maybe GWF should be interpreted along these lines.

Another thing that puzzled me about fighting styles is why 2WF adds a stat bonus to damage, but duelling adds only a flat +2. Is the rationing of the 2WF attack as a bonus action a significant consideration? Other than second wind, what are the bonus actions a fighter might want to take?

 

[Li Shenron]

I have a 3 DEX, I wear chainmail, I suffer no AC penalty to my AC from DEX. I think this one will get a lot of heat over the next years. Old one leg just needs some heavy armor and he'll be alright.

I noticed the same. It's a bit weird to say the least.

A few small things could have been done better here and there. Some tweaks I really can't understand, while others I do appreciate (e.g. the further simplification of Grapple and Disengage).

 

[Nebulous]

I think re-rolling damage dice is probably easier for people to explain in-game: the fighter is skilled and rarely deals glancing blows. Damage on a miss however enters that tricky gray area of just how one can keep missing a target until...they die of a heart attack from fatigue? Miss damage doesn't really "fit" from the story focus that 5E seems aimed at.

I never liked rerolling damage either. We always houseruled (for example) that a 1-2-3 becomes a 4 on the d12, no need to reroll, you just get a 4 minimum.

 

[Prism]

Another thing that puzzled me about fighting styles is why 2WF adds a stat bonus to damage, but duelling adds only a flat +2. Is the rationing of the 2WF attack as a bonus action a significant consideration? Other than second wind, what are the bonus actions a fighter might want to take?

I guess its because most fighters using the duelling style will also be able to benefit from a shield. All things considered a sword and shield fighter is pretty strong with its +2 AC and +2 Damage

 

[Li Shenron]

I think the reason is to give a bonus for actually using a shield instead of a great weapon or two weapons.

I agree this is the rationale.

They probably went with these requirements so that there is a separate benefit linked to actually either using a one-handed weapon, two weapons, a two-handed weapon, a one-handed weapon + shield.

On the other hand, it would make the game more flexible if it didn't require a shield. In the same way, the defensive style requires to wear armor, but if it wouldn't, then you could have a no-armor duelist with this defensive properties.

 

[Njall]

Another thing that puzzled me about fighting styles is why 2WF adds a stat bonus to damage, but duelling adds only a flat +2. Is the rationing of the 2WF attack as a bonus action a significant consideration? Other than second wind, what are the bonus actions a fighter might want to take?

Well, since the bonus attack from TWF is a bonus action, you can only benefit from the damage bonus once per round no matter your level; the bonus from dueling applies to 4 attacks by the time you hit level 20. So TWF style will probably start out higher and contribute for pretty much the same amount of damage per round over the course of 20 levels, while dueling starts out lower but scales with Extra Attack.

 

[pemerton]

Well, since the bonus attack from TWF is a bonus action, you can only benefit from the damage bonus once per round no matter your level; the bonus from dueling applies to 4 attacks by the time you hit level 20. So TWF style will probably start out higher and contribute for pretty much the same amount of damage per round over the course of 20 levels, while dueling starts out lower but scales with Extra Attack.

Thanks. I just finished reading the other (Official Basic D&D) thread and saw the same explanation there too.

Maybe 2WF is a little underpowered? Although it can get double magic and other buff bonuses, I guess. Maybe the real point is that 2WF is hard to balance (as it was in 4e) while it gives bonus attacks.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

One thing that's just bothered the hell out of me since the playtest, and that remains in Basic, is that the Fighter's 'protector' feature allowing you to protect your allies, but it requires you to be holding a shield. Not only does it not make sense (a sword in your enemy's face is just as Disadvantageous as a shield, is it not?), but it means that, RAW, you can't actually protect your friends if you're, say, a greatweapon fighter, or dual-wielding. I suppose you could say the cross section of some swords is too small for some types of attacks, but there's no reason someone with a Great Ax couldn't cover a friend if a buckler would also suffice.

They actually fixed this in the Playtest. Initially it was Shield-only. People complained. They changed it to Shield or Weapon.

Great!

Then the actual release broke it again? Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. It's also really wack because they claim to be supporting 4E as a play style, but putting this to Shield-only breaks with that.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I never liked rerolling damage either. We always houseruled (for example) that a 1-2-3 becomes a 4 on the d12, no need to reroll, you just get a 4 minimum.

I would suggest just rolling damage with advantage on the damage roll. That way you get the higher damage average without having to re-roll anything.