D&D 5E What are the roles of paladin spells?

[GameOgre]

The Ancients paladin I'm playing is one of five PCs, and she's a recent recruit (replacement for my previous character). We're all 16th level, and I have to say that, as fun as she is, it's been difficult for me to find a niche for her.

The wizard has the big blasty effects covered, so my only AoE attack spell - ice storm - is somewhat pointless.

The druid and the cleric have healing and buffing mostly covered, although I can still chip in via Lay on Hands and aura of vitality and the like from time to time.

The cleric and wizard can both cast banishment, so there's not much point in me prepping that spell. The cleric is a tempest cleric, so she even gets destructive wave (and before my paladin does).

Between the druid and the fact that we're mostly fighting big things like giants and dragons these days, stuff like Nature's Wrath, ensnaring strike and plant growth aren't all that useful either because it's too easy for the targets to make their saves.

Compelled duel isn't so useful because we're frequently up against a single opponent, and the others don't want to just stand around while I get all the fun.

She can't even outshine the others as a tank because the monk and the cleric both have ACs nearly as high as hers (23 vs 24) and plenty of hit points. The druid's pretty booty too. The cleric just got a belt of fire giant strength too, so her player says he's going to be having her wade into melee more with her new 25 Strength.

The only place where my character really shines is with her auras. Immunity to fear, resistance to spell damage, and +5 to all saves is nothing to sneeze at. Of course, you have to be within 10 feet of her to get that but eventually it'll spread to 30 feet.

I guess you could say she's also the party face, with the best Charisma and social skill modifiers in the game, though the other players generally don't let me do much of the talking ...

I can see your point. Really it might have been better to go with a Barbarian or a Fighter in that group as far as better defining your party role. Sounds like it might have been more useful in that particular group. Really though as long as you are having fun and stuff is getting killed then it's all good. When my guys start overlapping too much in a group I do tend to butt in and steer them into a better combo if they already have ideas lighting up their imaginations and firing those brain cells off, it's kinda hard to get them to listen.

 

[pukunui]

I can see your point. Really it might have been better to go with a Barbarian or a Fighter in that group as far as better defining your party role. Sounds like it might have been more useful in that particular group. Really though as long as you are having fun and stuff is getting killed then it's all good. When my guys start overlapping too much in a group I do tend to butt in and steer them into a better combo if they already have ideas lighting up their imaginations and firing those brain cells off, it's kinda hard to get them to listen.

This is actually my third character in this campaign. That's how much I've been struggling to find a place in the group. I might've been better off going bard, actually. I had even considered a paladin/bard combo, but in the end decided to shoot for just paladin.

And don't get me wrong. The character is lots of fun. It's just I don't use her spells much.

 

[Quickleaf]

Well, at least you can be their moral compass

On a more "character optimization" note, I think you should post more about your build & feat selection (if you're using feats).

In relation to your question, the only uniquely paladin spells are the "smites", the "auras", and the paladin trio of heroism, find steed, and compelled duel... and those are actually pretty cool. Especially in your caster-heavy party, I'd recommend stocking up on those categories of spells.

Auras
Aura of Life - protect your party from undead and give them an automatic up when they've fallen (that's huge!)
Aura of Purity - grant your whole party adv on saves against a whole slew of conditions (also huge!)
Aura of Vitality - you can do bonus action heals for 2d6 (not that great unless you have no other use for your bonus actions)
Crusader's Mantle - add 1d4 radiant damage to yours and your allies weapon attacks

Smites
Divine Favor - deal +1d4 radiant damage, unlike other smites last for up to a whole minute (not just one attack) at the expense of concentration
Searing Smite - light your sword on fire for +1d6 fire damage that's ongoing
Thunderous Smite - deal +2d6 thunder damage, knock enemy back and prone, and get the attention of everyone in 300-ft
Wrathful Smite - deal +1d6 psychic damage and chance to frighten your enemy
Branding Smite - +2d6 radiant damage and acts like a targeted faerie fire
Blinding Smite - +3d8 radiant damage and maybe temporarily blind target
Elemental Weapon - +1d4 typed damage of your choice, it's like Divine Favor, mainly works on a nonmagical weapon making it a +1 weapon (probably not useful at 16th level when you likely have a good magic weapon)
Staggering Smite - deal +4d6 psychic damage and daze the target

Paladin Trio
Heroism - give yourself (or another, but probably you) fear immunity and 4 or 5 regenerating temporary HP
Find Steed - this awesome, and you should be doing this whenever you're not in a dungeon! With the Mounted Combat feat, you get advantaged attacks vs unmounted medium creatures (maybe not so useful if you're facing big monsters only).
Compelled Duel - you said this one wasn't useful in your campaign, but I forget why. Anyhow, it's a situationally useful spell, but most of the time you should be using concentration to keep an Aura active, so that downgrades it IMHO.

The only unique Oath of Ancient spell that you get (given your party composition) that your Druid friend cannot do is ensnaring strike. Given what you said about Large enemies, and that the Oath of Ancients gives you Channel Divinity: Nature's Wrath, I would not take ensnaring strike. Though you might inquire with your DM if he/she will let you compose an alternate set of Oath spells leaning more toward ranger spells? Actually, given Large creatures being a big deal in your DM's campaign, picking up 3 levels of ranger (hunter) for Colossus Slayer isn't a bad idea...

Ok, here is the prepared spell load out I would recommend for your PC (Oath of Ancients paladin 16), in your party (Druid, wizard, cleric, monk, and you), in your campaign (Large boss monster fights):

1st level - detect evil and good, heroism, thunderous smite, Wrathful smite
2nd level - branding smite, find steed
3rd level - aura of vitality, blinding smite, crusader's mantle
4th level - aura of life, aura of purity, staggering smite

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Paladin spells are all basically fuel for smiting things into oblivion.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I can see your point. Really it might have been better to go with a Barbarian or a Fighter in that group as far as better defining your party role. Sounds like it might have been more useful in that particular group. Really though as long as you are having fun and stuff is getting killed then it's all good. When my guys start overlapping too much in a group I do tend to butt in and steer them into a better combo if they already have ideas lighting up their imaginations and firing those brain cells off, it's kinda hard to get them to listen.

Yeah I would have gone Rogue scout/face in that party, I think

 

[pukunui]

Firstly, I would like to apologize for hijacking the thread. That wasn't my intention.

Yeah I would have gone Rogue scout/face in that party, I think

That was my first character. I got bored with her and made a ranger/rogue based on the Diablo III demon hunter, with heavy emphasis on being stealthy, but the ninja monk/warlock was always taking point and scouting ahead and that, so it seemed kind of pointless. That's why I made a paladin instead.

Well, at least you can be their moral compass

The monk disapproves of my paladin's hedonistic lifestyle. The others are OK with it, even the lawful good cleric. Ha.

On a more "character optimization" note, I think you should post more about your build & feat selection (if you're using feats).

She's a half-elf fighter 1 / paladin 15. Background is knight. She has a moonblade with the finesse and beacon properties. It just got upgraded to be a vorpal sword too (see my thread about the awesomest D&D experience ever). She also has a +1 guardian shield, +1 elvish mithril plate, and a cloak of protection.

Her stats are Str 13 Dex 20 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 20.

Feats: Inspiring Leader and Resilience (Wisdom).
Skills: Acrobatics, History, Intimidation, Perception, Performance, and Persuasion.

We're playing Age of Worms converted to 5e, by the way. We're currently on the Island of Last Resort, I think. (I missed the session where the group first went there, but we just defeated a titan imprisoned in the island's demiplane so we could take his belt.)

Too many of the paladin's spells require concentration, if you ask me. Basically, if you have a concentration buff up, you can't use any of the smite spells because they're concentration too, so they break the buff spell. It's kind of annoying.

Compelled Duel - you said this one wasn't useful in your campaign, but I forget why.

Because we've been fighting a lot of big monsters that everybody wants to gang up on, so I can't use this spell because the moment another PC damages the target, the spell ends.

I would not take ensnaring strike.

I can't not take it. I get it automatically.

Though you might inquire with your DM if he/she will let you compose an alternate set of Oath spells leaning more toward ranger spells?

I tried that. He said no.

1st level - detect evil and good, heroism, thunderous smite, Wrathful smite
2nd level - branding smite, find steed
3rd level - aura of vitality, blinding smite, crusader's mantle
4th level - aura of life, aura of purity, staggering smite

This is what I currently have her prepare most days (bonus oath spells marked with an *):

1st: command, compelled duel, ensnaring strike*, purify food and drink, speak with animals*, wrathful smite
2nd: find steed, lesser restoration, misty step*, moonbeam*
3rd: aura of vitality, blinding smite, daylight, dispel magic, plant growth*, protection from energy*
4th: death ward, ice storm*, stoneskin*

In typing this up, I realized she's only got 11 spells prepped when she can have 12. Let's see ...

1st level: The cleric likes to cast bless, and both the druid and the cleric generally have cure wounds prepped. Detect evil and good mostly just duplicates the paladin's Divine Sense ability. Most everything else is pretty meh. I can't cast detect magic as a ritual, so it's best to leave that to the wizard.

2nd level: Hardly anything here worth taking with a cleric in the party. I prep find steed but have not actually used it yet. I used lesser restoration on myself once to get rid of some weird magical effect that (as it turns out only temporarily) dyed my skin black.

3rd level: Everything else here is either concentration or redundant with cleric/druid.

4th level: The two aura spells really don't seem that great to me. Both the wizard and cleric like to cast banishment on things. I prep death ward but don't generally use it now that I've got Undying Sentinel. Locate creature is pretty meh, as is staggering smite. And that's it for 4th level spells! Boo.

 

[Psikerlord#]

Firstly, I would like to apologize for hijacking the thread. That wasn't my intention.

That was my first character. I got bored with her and made a ranger/rogue based on the Diablo III demon hunter, with heavy emphasis on being stealthy, but the ninja monk/warlock was always taking point and scouting ahead and that, so it seemed kind of pointless. That's why I made a paladin instead.


The monk disapproves of my paladin's hedonistic lifestyle. The others are OK with it, even the lawful good cleric. Ha.

She's a half-elf fighter 1 / paladin 15. Background is knight. She has a moonblade with the finesse and beacon properties. It just got upgraded to be a vorpal sword too (see my thread about the awesomest D&D experience ever). She also has a +1 guardian shield, +1 elvish mithril plate, and a cloak of protection.

Her stats are Str 13 Dex 20 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 20.

Feats: Inspiring Leader and Resilience (Wisdom).
Skills: Acrobatics, History, Intimidation, Perception, Performance, and Persuasion.

We're playing Age of Worms converted to 5e, by the way. We're currently on the Island of Last Resort, I think. (I missed the session where the group first went there, but we just defeated a titan imprisoned in the island's demiplane so we could take his belt.)

Too many of the paladin's spells require concentration, if you ask me. Basically, if you have a concentration buff up, you can't use any of the smite spells because they're concentration too, so they break the buff spell. It's kind of annoying.

Because we've been fighting a lot of big monsters that everybody wants to gang up on, so I can't use this spell because the moment another PC damages the target, the spell ends.

I can't not take it. I get it automatically.

I tried that. He said no.


This is what I currently have her prepare most days (bonus oath spells marked with an *):

1st: command, compelled duel, ensnaring strike*, purify food and drink, speak with animals*, wrathful smite
2nd: find steed, lesser restoration, misty step*, moonbeam*
3rd: aura of vitality, blinding smite, daylight, dispel magic, plant growth*, protection from energy*
4th: death ward, ice storm*, stoneskin*

In typing this up, I realized she's only got 11 spells prepped when she can have 12. Let's see ...

1st level: The cleric likes to cast bless, and both the druid and the cleric generally have cure wounds prepped. Detect evil and good mostly just duplicates the paladin's Divine Sense ability. Most everything else is pretty meh. I can't cast detect magic as a ritual, so it's best to leave that to the wizard.

2nd level: Hardly anything here worth taking with a cleric in the party. I prep find steed but have not actually used it yet. I used lesser restoration on myself once to get rid of some weird magical effect that (as it turns out only temporarily) dyed my skin black.

3rd level: Everything else here is either concentration or redundant with cleric/druid.

4th level: The two aura spells really don't seem that great to me. Both the wizard and cleric like to cast banishment on things. I prep death ward but don't generally use it now that I've got Undying Sentinel. Locate creature is pretty meh, as is staggering smite. And that's it for 4th level spells! Boo.

I think this pc sounds great, and heaps of cool spells to choose from! your party also demonstrates one reason why I dont like (or allow) MCing - too much role/niche bleed over. If you didnt use MCing, your rogue would have had a solid place in the party, and so would your paladin.

 

[sithramir]

You just use the slots to smite with your normal smite ability. You should be a damage machine at that level.

I use shield of faith to gain (+2) AC and smite all day long. At your level i'd be using haste instead but I'm vengeance.

I feel your spells from that oath is poor but magic resistance is insane.

With stoneskin or shield of faith, your aura, magic resist, healing, and then smiting every time you hit should make you a defensive and offensive beast.

Hard to stand against a paladin doing that as they shrug off all spells and hit so hard

 

[The Human Target]

Can we talk about how weird it is that smite is a super strong class feature and yet paladins also have smite named spells?

That by and large aren't better than just using those spell slots to do a regular smite?

 

[Minigiant]

Do any paladins use spell for healing? Or control?

Or is it defense buff or burned for smite?