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Where is the National Guard?

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Sacrosanct

Legend
Maybe if they didn't shoot and behead people, we wouldn't drop as many bombs on them. They're not innocent in this. Yes, there is bad blood on both sides, but religion is the foundation that they follow for their jihad against us and everyone else. Politics is secondary to that.

Two things I disagree with here.

1. If religion was the primary reason, then it stands to reason that they would have always tried to bomb us since eternity. And they haven't. They were actually quite friendly to westerners for large periods of time---until something political happened. Like us disposing the leadership of Iran to install a dictator who would give us the country's oil, leading to the revolution and installment of the Shah.

2. You realize not all Muslims shoot and behead people, right? Hardly any of them do, by %. Most of the people we've killed in bombing and drone strikes were innocent civilians. So I guess I'll repost this from my earlier post

terroristirony.jpg
 

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Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
If I am not mistaken, you are both correct.

A lot of what they are after is a government and state religion working side by side. Effectively holding the actions of that established government up to the standards set by their holy doctrine. It would not be hard then to see both religious and political motivations at their core.
 

Janx

Hero
Religion is the prime motivator. Unlike communism, the radical Muslims believe what they say and are moved by that belief, rather than using an invented belief as a way to exert control.

I think wiser folk than you have researched that these conflicts over religious pretenses are all over political and territorial issues.

If religion was the prime motivator, than almost all 1 billion muslims would be active at war with us.

at best religion equals politics (heck, look at US politics and you'll see rabid loyalty to party lines, almost reverent in nature).
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Maybe if they didn't shoot and behead people, we wouldn't drop as many bombs on them.

That's the bully's position - you should let me do what I want without objection, and we'll get along fine!

They're not innocent in this.

Nobody said they were innocent. But let us remember our history: Some bad blood goes back to the Crusades (which were largely European aggression). Much of the modern collection of issues stem back to the displacing of Palestinians without their consent (effectively, again, Western aggression). And when they try to work these things out among themselves in the time-honored form of small wars, we step in to protect our petroleum interests. We topple their governments when we feel like, and then don't do a good job of setting them up to succeed afterwards.

But *they* aren't innocent, and should stop shooting, and we'd play nice? History doesn't really support that position.

No, they aren't innocent. There are some horrible, vicious human beings in the field at this point. But they got their foothold because of what *we* started, and continued to support with decades of short-sighted policy.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Nobody said they were innocent. But let us remember our history: Some bad blood goes back to the Crusades (which were largely European aggression). Much of the modern collection of issues stem back to the displacing of Palestinians without their consent (effectively, again, Western aggression). And when they try to work these things out among themselves in the time-honored form of small wars, we step in to protect our petroleum interests. We topple their governments when we feel like, and then don't do a good job of setting them up to succeed afterwards.

In all fairness, we used to set governments up to succeed back in the cold war, when we thought it best to install and boost regimes like the Shah's in Iran - even when they ended up governing with a fairly brutal hand. And, of course, that's now a significant part of the problem. We toppled the previous government because they were nationalizing British oil interests, set up a harsher regime, only to watch it fall and turn into an Anti-American regime that sponsors insurgent and terrorist organizations.

Nah, it's all religion and they have no political axe to grind against us...
 


Sacrosanct

Legend
In all fairness, we used to set governments up to succeed back in the cold war, when we thought it best to install and boost regimes like the Shah's in Iran - even when they ended up governing with a fairly brutal hand...

Make no mistake. When Mohammad Mosaddegh was in charge of Iran and it's oil, Iran was actually a very prosperous and progressive state. The problem was that a certain company (later to be known as British Petroleum), wanted that oil. So Britain allied with the US to overthrow Masaddegh and install a puppet who would give them the oil. We didn't care about setting up a successful government as long as we got the oil. Not did we give a crud about how the Iranians were actually treated. It was inevitable that the revolution would happen, and we're the ones indirectly at fault for putting Khomeini in power. And believe it, the people of Iran certainly haven't forgotten that.
 

Morlock

Banned
Banned
If whites had poverty rates as high as blacks, and were as politically disinfranchised as blacks, and were intentionally given poor police response time like blacks then whites would be in a situation where crime would have a greater opportunity to flourish. And don't forget that the law does little or nothing to protect people who testify, which makes people more likely to fall into that don't "snitch" crap that just helps create a garden for crime.

Poverty rates: there are more whites living below the poverty line in America than there are poor blacks. Then there's the fact that no one in America is starving. We have a fairly generous welfare state, so there's no excuse to going around shooting one another. Heck, if poverty rates were really to blame, then why is it a small minority of blacks (young, urban, male) doing the overwhelming majority of the killing? There are lots of poor black young women, middle aged men and women, and elderly, but you don't see them dropping bodies in the streets because poverty. Murder may cluster among poorer populations, but it also crosses socioeconomic lines.

Disenfranchised: I don't know what that means. Blacks vote at higher rates than most populations, last time I checked. Their grievances sure as hell get more air time than any other population group. Try to air a white grievance some time, then you'll see disenfranchised.

Poor police response time: well, taxes matter. Whites are taxed to pay for police for blacks and whites. You get what you pay for. Then there's the fact that black culture is currently quite hostile to police. You try solving crimes in an area where "no snitchin" reigns supreme, some time. The "law" can't protect witnesses, money can. Governments simply don't have the funds to pay to protect witnesses, especially given the fact that the areas that produce most of the problem produce the least tax revenue. The idea that witnesses aren't protected is what's really driving the "snitches get ditches" culture is laughable.

Yeah, occupy everything didn't ever happen.

This. It's long been a tactic of the left in general to occupy public spaces.

I recall Occupy having fewer armed people willing to level weapons at federal agents

Leftists have different politics. They don't care about the 2nd Amendment. Obviously these folks do. That said, no, I don't think they should be leveling guns at federal agents. For that matter, I don't know anything much about them, and my point here is not to defend them, but to answer the OP's points about wider society's response.

No, brosef. These guys are White. They could shoot up the cops and kill half the police force in that town, and they'd still be "protesters" and "activists."
The only way the word "terrorist" would be used is if some non-white guy walks by, and he just happens to be carrying something that could be construed as a weapon. Then the headline would read "Armed protesters defend themselves from Islamic terrorist."

Interesting point of view. Complete nonsense, but, interesting.
 

Hand of Evil

Hero
Epic
Was watching the news last night and the ex-FBI panel said they are leaving them alone because they are a mixed bag of nuts, different people hating different groups (some hate the government, some blacks, some Muslims, etc.) and the FBI figures they will start to turn on each other soon. Add to that they are away from people they see no reason to escalate the issue and create another Waco.
 


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