D&D 5E Making Thrown Weapon Attacks Melee Attacks

[Hawk Diesel]

Hey all. So I know that thrown weapons use your strength modifier for attacks and damage at range unless they have the finesse property (like daggers). Thrown weapons are also typically bigger, meaning without a magic item you can only carry a few at a time. For example, I don't see a character realistically carrying more than 4 javelins at a time. So based on this, how impactful would it be on the game to treat thrown weapon attacks as melee attacks rather than ranged attacks?

A few immediate and obvious changes this would have involve are the barbarian, paladin, and great weapon master. A barbarian could apply rage damage and reckless attack to a thrown weapon, a paladin could smite with a thrown weapon, and a great weapon master could benefit from select attacks at range.

Obviously this could cause issues, since these abilities don't seem to have been designed to allow them to work at range. Ranged attacks are already fairly powerful in 5e, and I am reluctant to give it even more power with the above proposed change.

But I'm also leaning towards trying this in my game, specifically because the natural logical limit on the number of thrown weapons that can be held. Technically you also need an object interaction to pull a weapon without the dual wielder feat, which limits it to effectively once per round regardless of the number of attacks a character has.

Additionally, what sparked this was a recent game that I play in where I play a paladin 8/barbarian 1 (I know, weird combo but it was more of an RP choice than anything). We got to the boss fight, who was very mobile. Most of the other players (actually now that recall, all the other players) are spellcasters. So it didn't affect them too much, but I felt like I spent multiple turns doing nothing but trying to move into position only for the boss to move away. This not only caused my rage to expire (did not have any javelins to use) but was also very frustrating in a fight that should have been more fun. So it got me thinking about everything presented above, and that someone in a similar position could still feel like a part of the fight.

What do other people think? Is this a feature rather than a bug? Are there other unintended consequences such a change might have that I haven't considered?

 

[bedir than]

While I want adjustments to thrown weapons. I think that this change has some cascading consequences. I think the easier path would be to make some thrown weapon experts, either through subclasses (a javelin hunting barbarian seems like a cool one) or via feat (I miss the 3 darts a round builds).

 

[Jediking]

I like the idea and may include it in my next game.

i’d just try it as you put it and make it a blanket rule.
If certain cases come up that really affect the balance or start to be issues (eg if throwing Smites from range is a preventing encounters from being fun anymore) then just make a ruling against that example.

of course, if too many issues come up, then maybe this change isnt the best fix

 

[Tony Vargas]

Thrown weapons got a Combat Style in a recent UA.
FWIW

 

[Hawk Diesel]

While I want adjustments to thrown weapons. I think that this change has some cascading consequences. I think the easier path would be to make some thrown weapon experts, either through subclasses (a javelin hunting barbarian seems like a cool one) or via feat (I miss the 3 darts a round builds).

That could be one route, but personally I don't think a concept of a ranged barbarian or paladin is robust enough to build a whole subclass around (though I admit this may be more due to my own short-sightedness or design bias). Plus it doesn't address the core issue that I see, which is most base classes provide melee and ranged options, except barbarian and paladin. Which means if you DM doesn't take this into account, you may have players feeling frustrated due to their inability to meaningfully contribute to the encounter.

Thrown weapons got a Combat Style in a recent UA.
FWIW

Yep. And I thought of it while I was writing the post. But I thought the fighting style was a bit underwhelmin compared to other fighting styles.

Though maybe if that fighting style specifically indicated that thrown weapon attacks can count as melee attacks, that might be something interesting.

 

[Esker]

I don't see it being a big deal for GWM, since it would only affect the bonus action attack (there are no heavy thrown weapons). Barbarians would still want to get into melee, since they're usually tanks, plus dropping down to the d6 weapon cancels out most of the rage benefit they're getting by making it a melee attack (unless they're sword and board barbarians I guess, but then they want to lock down enemies even moreso). Battlemasters could use Parry or Riposte in a few more situations (I suppose they could use sweeping attack with a thrown weapon too, which is implausible but not problematic for balance), but that seems fine. And anybody relying on blade cantrips would still need to get within 5'.

So that pretty much leaves paladins: when smiting they don't care that much if they are losing a point or two off of the base weapon die. But they still need to get within 30' to be effective with a javelin, so it doesn't completely invalidate the strategy of an enemy who kites or teleports around, etc., just makes it a bit less effective.

Bottom line, I doubt it would be a problem. And it would have plenty of benefits from a fun perspective for those players. Certainly at least worth trying out.

 

[Esker]

It occurs to me that this actually removes the ability to use sharpshooter with thrown weapons (the first two features; the -5/+10 part already doesn't work). I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's a thing.

 

[Charlaquin]

Hey all. So I know that thrown weapons use your strength modifier for attacks and damage at range unless they have the finesse property (like daggers).

While this is usually the case, darts are an exception. They use Dexterity by default because they are ranged weapons, and Finesse allows them to be used with Strength. Six of one, half a dozen of the other in this case, but the distinction may be important for any homebrew ranged thrown weapons that don’t have Finesse.

It occurs to me that this actually removes the ability to use sharpshooter with thrown weapons (the first two features; the -5/+10 part already doesn't work). I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's a thing.

You can’t use sharpshooter with thrown weapons other than darts anyway because they’re not ranged weapons. They’re melee weapons with the thrown property.

 

[Esker]

You can’t use sharpshooter with thrown weapons other than darts anyway because they’re not ranged weapons. They’re melee weapons with the thrown property.

But throwing a weapon is a ranged weapon attack, even though it's not an attack with a ranged weapon. Note the difference in wording between the first two features and the third one. This was clarified as the intent in Sage Advice.

 

[Charlaquin]

But throwing a weapon is a ranged weapon attack, even though it's not an attack with a ranged weapon. Note the difference in wording between the first two features and the third one.

Exactly. The third feature is worded, “ Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.” A dagger or a javelin is not “a ranged weapon you’re proficient with.”

This was clarified as the intent in Sage Advice.

It was confirmed that melee weapons with the thrown property do not qualify for that part of Sharpshooter.
(Does Sharpshooter feat should work with daggers?)