D&D 5E Reworking Spell Lists (Reducing "Sameyness")

[DND_Reborn]

UPDATE: Added 1st Level spells to OP.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Um... 4E?

Yes, 4e formalized Source and Role, even though they'd both been implied in the game - arguably since the beginning.

(where every class is unique irrespective of source).

And, also, every class is samey. Because logic doesn't apply.

UPDATE: Added 1st Level spells to OP.

First impressions:

Charm Person has always been a Wizard (and, occasionally, Druid) spell.
Why Cleric?


… aside from that, nothing leaps out.

 

[DND_Reborn]

First impressions:

Charm Person has always been a Wizard (and, occasionally, Druid) spell.
Why Cleric?

Oddly, we both assigned it to Cleric before I compared our lists. My reasoning, at least, was to associate most of the control spells (for humanoids, not beasts or monsters) to Clerics. I also gave them Suggestion for the same reason (which @TwoSix also did, FWIW).

 

[Tony Vargas]

DISCUSSION POINTS: These spells need a home.

Armor of Agathys (Druid*/Cleric*)
Warlock spell. Gives temp hp, causes 5 cold damage when hit by melee attack.

Arms of Hadar (Wizard*/Cleric*)
Warlock spell. Does necro damage and maybe no reactions by targets.

Agathys is a layer of Carceri, so Cleric; Hadar is a star, so Warlock?

Cause Fear (Wizard*/Druid*)

Long-time wizard spell.

Expeditious Retreat (Wizard*/Druid*)

Druid (thus ranger) already gets Longstrider.

False Life (Cleric*/Druid*)

Always been a wizard spell. The very name implies it's un-natural.

Grease (Wizard*/Druid*)

Always been a wizard spell, Druid already has Entangle.

Hellish Rebuke (Wizard*/Cleric*)

Hell says it all: Cleric.

Hex (Cleric*/ Wizard*)

Key Warlock spell. Either Wizard, or make it a Warlock feature.

Inflict Wounds (Cleric*/ Druid*)

Classic EHP. Cleric.

Thunderwave (Cleric*/ Wizard*)

Originally a Wizard spell.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Oddly, we both assigned it to Cleric before I compared our lists. My reasoning, at least, was to associate most of the control spells (for humanoids, not beasts or monsters) to Clerics. I also gave them Suggestion for the same reason (which @TwoSix also did, FWIW).

Also makes it feel a bit redundant along side Command.

What are Enchanters supposed to do, if not Charm people?

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Yes, 4e formalized Source and Role, even though they'd both been implied in the game - arguably since the beginning.

They hadn't just been "implied". They were real categories with real rules effects -- I daresay more than in 4E. To take just one example, a 3E talisman of the sphere cares if you're an "arcane spellcaster"; a 4E talisman doesn't.

And, also, every class is samey. Because logic doesn't apply.

Don't.

 

[TwoSix]

Oddly, we both assigned it to Cleric before I compared our lists. My reasoning, at least, was to associate most of the control spells (for humanoids, not beasts or monsters) to Clerics. I also gave them Suggestion for the same reason (which @TwoSix also did, FWIW).

Yep, I moved charms in general to Cleric. I was going for a "Body, Mind, and Soul" theme there. Also channeling a bit of WoW (where the Priest class has healing and psychic spells) and classic yogi themes.

 

[Tony Vargas]

They hadn't just been "implied". They were real categories with real rules effects -- I daresay more than in 4E. To take just one example, a 3E talisman of the sphere cares if you're an "arcane spellcaster"; a 4E talisman doesn't.

That's a very specific example, and an item that didn't show up in 4e until the MME. OTOH, every spell had the Arcane keyword, every prayer, Divine, apervasive, foundational concept, vs a vague shorthand for 'Sorcerers & wizards ...oh, and Bards, I guess, maybe' - just the kind of classifications this thread is aspiring too - it's just that, in 4e, each class, as you pointed out, also had a unique list, not just each Source.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this "samey" line finally came up with regard to 5e, it's going on 6 years in, the overlapping spell lists have been a thing not just all of 5e, but all of 3e, and all the game's history, before that.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yep, I moved charms in general to Cleric. I was going for a "Body, Mind, and Soul" theme there. Also channeling a bit of WoW (where the Priest class has healing and psychic spells) and classic yogi themes.

What are your thoughts about nerfing Produce Flame to shed light and maybe ignite combustibles, but take away its attack potential? Then we could give it to Druid, move Dancing Lights to Wizard and Light to Cleric? This way, all three would have a "lighting" option. It brings back some sameyness, but seems odd all three couldn't do it. I'm on the fence myself.

 

[TwoSix]

What are your thoughts about nerfing Produce Flame to shed light and maybe ignite combustibles, but take away its attack potential? Then we could give it to Druid, move Dancing Lights to Wizard and Light to Cleric? This way, all three would have a "lighting" option. It brings back some sameyness, but seems odd all three couldn't do it. I'm on the fence myself.

I think it's OK, but I think I'd prefer something like a single object Faerie Fire that just produces the same violet, blue, or green light (it's a different kind of visual, and makes the Druid a little more "eerie", which I like). My preference is always for something new rather than just a nerfed version of an existing spell.
'
Modifying Control Flames to be able start small fires on flammable objects (which I always thought was kind of silly it couldn't do) could be another way for Druids to produce light.