D&D 5E Reworking Spell Lists (Reducing "Sameyness")

[Delazar]

Really enjoying this thread!

If would be interesting to consider already the "big fourth" of magic sources... Psionics!

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Really enjoying this thread!

If would be interesting to consider already the "big fourth" of magic sources... Psionics!

Dang that would have been awesome. But I would really reduce the other Spheres and probably cause @Fenris-77 to have an heart attack while I giggle while removing telekinesis, scrying and such from the Arcane Sphere

 

[DND_Reborn]

Really enjoying this thread!

If would be interesting to consider already the "big fourth" of magic sources... Psionics!

That would be interesting and maybe we can consider it for a later discussion. I was never happy with the UA handling of Psionics and began writing my own homebrew for it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

FWIW when the spells lists are done (or at least a draft of each spell level), I will post a compilation of spells gained/lost for each class compared to the current lists.

 

[Fenris-77]

Dang that would have been awesome. But I would really reduce the other Spheres and probably cause @Fenris-77 to have an heart attack while I giggle while removing telekinesis, scrying and such from the Arcane Sphere

I like Psionics, I just don't want them to feel like a reskinned spellcaster. I wouldn't use the spells or slot mechanics for them given the choice. I certainly wouldn't poach spells for a fourth class out of the existing lists. That would probably bring on an apoplexy. OR at least gin up a good dose of the angina. I'd prefer something more like stacked invocation style abilities worked into feat trees, probably powered by a point system with the ability to use either HP or CON to power abilities in a pinch.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I like Psionics, I just don't want them to feel like a reskinned spellcaster. I wouldn't use the spells or slot mechanics for them given the choice. I certainly wouldn't poach spells for a fourth class out of the existing lists. That would probably bring on an apoplexy. OR at least gin up a good dose of the angina. I'd prefer something more like stacked invocation style abilities worked into feat trees, probably powered by a point system with the ability to use either HP or CON to power abilities in a pinch.

I agree. The homebrew I stated on doesn't use slots or take spells away from the casters, but I don't want to derail the current thread topic.

 

[TwoSix]

Note: I'm evaluating the spells under the concept I was discussing back on post 188. Namely, wizards get spells from every list, limited by opposition schools, sorcerers and/or warlocks are the primary casters for arcane. I've found thinking in those terms really has helped my refine my concepts on some of the more difficult spells.

Hold Monster (B,S,War,W) - "Monster is Arcane, Person is Divine, Plants and Animals are Primal" idea makes a ton of sense, I'd go with it. Arcane.

Scrying (B,C,D,War,W) - Knowledge gathering, plus the "space bending" aspect of the spell point me to Arcane. I think Primal casters would just ask a fey to go spy for them, and a Divine caster would Commune to gain information.

Danse Macabre - I'm fully on board with evil priests raising the dead. Divine.

Immolation/Flame Strike - I'd swap them, personally. Flame Strike is heaven-sent, and does radiant damage. Immolation sets someone's insides on fire, which feels like a powerful witch curse. Flame Strike - Divine, Immo - Primal.

 

[Minigiant]

Actually, Druids can use metal weapons without any problem, this has been the case since 1E:

As you can see, daggers and scimitars were used, scimitars actually very common IME anyway.

Only time I played 1e, the party druid had to use wooden, stone, gem, bone, or single metal nonalloy weapons. The DM was weird so my memory of rules might be off.

No one ever said Ranger was weaker, if fact we are making them much stronger by drastically increasing their spell selection. You saw one spell you objected to, and ran with it. So...

Rangers, as we are dedicating as the half-caster of "natural/primal" spells, have most of their spells belong to the Druid. While Rangers did get some M-U spells in 1E, our goal is the anyone who plays a Ranger now has access to the same spells they did before in 5E. By putting all of their spells under Druid, they not only have access to most of their current spells, but others as well. The only spells they have lost are:

Alarm
Silence
Nondetection

Any or all of which, personally, I wouldn't mind moving to Druid. But, also considering all the new spells they are gaining, I think it is a reasonable compromise. I am sorry if disagree, but from the beginning hopefully we all understood compromises would be made.

Similarly, the Paladin loses:

Magic Weapon
Elemental Weapon

But it also gains a ton of new spells.

I would have to disagree with it being find for Rangers to a point.

Since OD&D, rangers had access to Divination and Communication items and spells. This originally was to mimic Aragorn's use of items that did this.

But as editions evolves, divination and communication have been core to the ranger experience. Especially as does gained ways to defeat mundane tracking.

Ranger is the tracking class. You can't track flyers and teleporters and people with Pass without Trace with all the lower Divination spells.

So limiting ranger to druid spells would require giving rangers a way to magical track people who leave no footsteps nor trails. Now I don't know if we are going to give rangers omniscience.

This isn't a problem for paladins as all they need for their job is Find Steed and Smites.

 

[TwoSix]

Unfortunately, this is where I think we need to start shifting the bailiwicks of the Big 3. As others have said, I like the idea of Clerics summoning demons and being able to banish them. This allows for good and evil to both be represented in the same class.

While druids conjuring elements makes some sense obviously, they already conjure other things. Changing our mindset to something more along the lines druids can controls and manipulate elements, but once that force takes on sentience they can't, and this is where the wizard steps in?

It isn't easy, trying to re-imagine some long-standing concepts with regard to these spells.

I'm actually leaning back towards making demons be arcane, celestials be divine, and everything else be primal.

 

[TwoSix]

I like Psionics, I just don't want them to feel like a reskinned spellcaster. I wouldn't use the spells or slot mechanics for them given the choice. I certainly wouldn't poach spells for a fourth class out of the existing lists. That would probably bring on an apoplexy. OR at least gin up a good dose of the angina. I'd prefer something more like stacked invocation style abilities worked into feat trees, probably powered by a point system with the ability to use either HP or CON to power abilities in a pinch.

I've probably pimped this before on psionic threads, but since it hits pretty close to what you're asking for:

5e - Psion (KibblesTasty) by KibblesTasty

5e - Psion (KibblesTasty) by KibblesTasty - Created with GM Binder.

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