D&D 5E Ranking 1st level spells

[abirdcall]

eactly how much gold would you say a lv 2 party have to spend after covering the basics?

Level 1 lasts half a session. Level 2 lasts 1 session. (This is how the exp. table is designed)

We can pick very specific times and campaigns where each spell can be good.

I put Sleep as Tier D even though it is very good at levels 1 and 2.

 

[abirdcall]

I don't see it either. But it's a tricky one to judge because not everyone runs it the same way. I've had players who seemed to think that Charm Person flipped a creature's allegiances, i.e. that a charmed creature will change sides in a battle. Which is not how it works at all (at least in my games). A charmed creature only views the spellcaster as a friend, not the whole party. Nor will a charmed creature turn against its other friends and allies. At most, it will stop attacking the spellcaster, or try to stop the fight.

I missed that one.

I would say Tier C

It makes the creature regard the PC (and only that 1 PC) as a friendly acquaintance. The creature also may not attack the PC.

The creature does not view the spellcaster as a friend. Friendly acquaintance is entirely different. There are plenty of people who I have met at a party and had a pleasant conversation with. I'm not going to trust them with anything and I'm unlikely to do them any substantial favours. I will give them courtesy though.

 

[abirdcall]

I've come around on Wrathful Smite and put it in Tier A as people are passionate about it.

I was definitely off the mark on C (there are some spells I haven't actually seen in play and I read it a bit wrong). I would say low A but I can see how it is a top tier Paladin pick.

 

[Todd Roybark]

The effect is pretty minor when compared to other save spells.

The concentration really kills it. There are better spells at all levels to be concentrating on. Ones that will actually take away from enemy creature's actions and other nasty effects.

???? A persistent minus to Attacks and Saving Throws is minor? A character being attacked by an enemy effectively gets a bonus of +1-4 to AC. More important, is the penalty to Saving Throws.

Those other spells you think have better effects, the Bane spell is how you ensure those spells take effect.

Combine the -1d4 from Bane, along with effects like Cutting Words, or the Heighten Metamagic power and you can Negate a strong Save for a monster, or ensure a fail on a weak Saving Throw.

It is a First level spell, so if one needs to stop Concentrating on the spell, so be it. Concentrating on this spell for even one round to set up a “slam dunk” for one of your party-mates can literally be life or death.

Sorry ad_hoc, your view is short sided.

 

[abirdcall]

???? A persistent minus to Attacks and Saving Throws is minor? A character being attacked by an enemy gets a bonus 1-4 bonuses to AC. More important, is the penalty to Saving Throws.

Those other spells you think have better effects, the Bane spell is how you ensure those spells take effect. Combine the -1d4 from Bane, along with effects like Cutting Words, or the Heighten Metamagic power and you can Negate a strong Save for a monster, or ensure a fail on a weak Saving Throw.

It is a First level spell, so if one needs to stop Concentrating on the spell, so be it. Concentrating on this spell for even one round to set up a “slam dunk” for one of your party-mates can literally be life or death.

Sorry ad_hoc, your view is short sided.

The problem with Bane is that it allows a save (and it is Concentration). Both of those factors combined just makes it lackluster.

Instead of 'setting up a slam dunk' just cast a spell yourself. You have a much better chance of getting something good off if you both cast an effective spell rather than 1 casting a spell hoping for a failure, hoping you don't lose Concentration, and then hoping the 1d4 will make a difference.

It's not a terrible spell, it's just deceptive how bad it actually is in practice.

 

[Stoutstien]

Level 1 lasts half a session. Level 2 lasts 1 session. (This is how the exp. table is designed)

We can pick very specific times and campaigns where each spell can be good.

I put Sleep as Tier D even though it is very good at levels 1 and 2.

well guidelines in the DMG(pg.38) for starting at higher levels gives some idea of wealth:level. 1-4th lv PCs don't gather much wealth, and lv 5-10 we are looking at 500G + 1d10 X25G(660 with starting gear) which gives about 132G per level. so a potion of healing is a huge investment and a pretty sweet thing to be received as a reward or looted.

 

[Todd Roybark]

Problem with Bane is that you'll never cast it over Bless if you have a choice.

Nah, sometimes it is better to ensure the monster fails, then another character succeeds.

The 9th level Fighter with 100 HP can fail a save or two, and suck up the damage. The Rogue is probably going to make that Dex Saving Throw anyway.

Making sure the Atropal, fails whatever nasty effect you want it to....priceless.

 

[abirdcall]

well guidelines in the DMG(pg.38) for starting at higher levels gives some idea of wealth:level. 1-4th lv PCs don't gather much wealth, and lv 5-10 we are looking at 500G + 1d10 X25G(660 with starting gear) which gives about 132G per level. so a potion of healing is a huge investment and a pretty sweet thing to be received as a reward or looted.

The guidelines using treasure hoards is over 2800gp by the end of level 4.

Each level from 5-10 is over 12 000 per level.

I'd rather be alive and have less gold than have a TPK.

 

[Todd Roybark]

It's not a terrible spell, it's just deceptive how bad it actually is in practice.

My experience, is it is quite effective in practice. I say this as a DM...canny use of this spell by the Bard and Oath of Vengeance Paladin/Hexblade, has prevented much damage from being suffered, but more importantly, has caused many a Saving Throw failure, or use of Legendary Resistance to be expended.

Bane and Hypnotic Pattern can make it so the creatures you want, stop and watch the Pink Floyd laserium show.

Players may not know how good this spell can be, if DMs are not sharing how it is -ing with their dice rolls.

 

[abirdcall]

My experience, is it is quite effective in practice. I say this as a DM...canny use of this spell by the Bard and Oath of Vengeance Paladin/Hexblade, has saved much damage from being suffered, but more importantly, has caused many a Saving Throw failure, or use of Legendary Resistance to be expended.

Bane and Hypnotic Pattern can make it so the creatures you want, stop and watch the Pink Floyd laserium show.

Players may not know how good this spell can be, if DMs are not sharing how it is -ing with their dice rolls.

But...what if they just cast 2 effective spells instead?

Bane just doesn't force save failures the way you are representing it.

If it didn't have a saving throw, or it was a bonus action, or it wasn't concentration...any of these differences would make it a great spell.