D&D General The Renewing Charm of the Old School Play Experience

[Lanefan]

Heh, I rarely broke that table out back in the day. Mostly I remember using it for checking to see if potions and oil flasks broke. But yeah, with it a DM could absolutely wreck a high level character in 1e. And also grind the game to a halt while everyone makes saving throws for every piece of equipment they owned.

Yes, sorting out a meltdown can take time, particularly a) if multiple characters are involved and-or b) something goes 'boom' during the meltdown (e.g. a wand goes off and releases charges) and causes another round of saves.

And to agree with someone else upthread, items only had to save if the person carrying them failed to save, or if they weren't being carried by anyone.

 

[Lanefan]

I agree with this. The whole 'if you continue to use magic you will eventually turn into a puddle of goo' is not what I find fun.

Which is too bad, because otherwise it's an awesome system!

Then again, tweaking those effects or even removing them entirely shouldn't be that hard.

 

[werecorpse]

Please stop. Of course it was "extensive" by today's standards, and I already explained why.

But it wasn't like you are trying to assert with Artifacts and Relics with no ill effects dangling from the trees. Here, let's look! Following is a list of every single magic item in G1 that you can get, assuming you defeat everything and find them all:
Potions: Extra-healing, Hill Giant Control, Healing, Poison, Giant Strength, Delusion, Water Breathing x4, Poison
Armor/Shields: +3 Shield
Weapons: 5 Javelins of Lightning, War Hammer +2, Sword +2 (+4 v. Giants), Battle Axe +3, 11 Magic Arrows +2, 2 Flame Brands (!!!!)
Misc.: Scarab of Insanity

Now, notice that this is supposed to be for levels 9 and up (the collection says 8-12 but the included tournament PCs are all levels 9-14). That's name level. There are no "artifacts." There are no rings of wishes. There are no items that provide a bonus above 3 (except for specialized cases). The majority of items are consumables (both potions, and weapons like javelins and arrows). There are numerous cursed items. The one notable thing is probably the over-abundance of magic swords, which, if the party is ninth level, shouldn't be that big of a deal (Cue up the refrain of "Oh, another +1 long sword?").

Monty Haul wasn't just about getting a lot of potions; it was about Rings of Wishes and Artifacts with no side effects and jaunting off to kill Vecna and Kas and Satan.

So, if you want to insist that the campaign you played with the Flying Throne of the Gods and the Ring of Six Bonus Actions was how everyone played, knock yourself out.

I made my point.

I noticed you again ignored the fact that I answered your statements that what I said as to what was done and found in 1e (except the flying throne of the gods which I said we recognised as not RAW and was a one shot which you keep harping on about - classic straw man stuff, well done).

So you defeat everything and find all the loot in G1 (Your words)? What about the room where you get a bunch of rolls ( About 50) on a random table with each roll giving you an 18% chance of getting a random magic item? You missed that.

and you’re right no rings of 3 wishes In G1 (unless you roll one) but there is one in each of G2 and G3. But no +1 swords either - that giant slayer and the two flame brands might come in handy against say frost giants.

and what is your point? mine is that some 1e stuff had pretty huge treasures and you could get pretty crazy loot piles just By following the rules. I have never said All games were played that way (in fact in my post where I mentioned the killing of Kas and Vecna I said we also played a low power game that went about 15 years to end in the high teen levels) you are putting words in my mouth Or just misinterpreting what I’m saying to try and bolster your argument. I’m saying that stating that low power was the only way people played (or could legitimately play RAW) back in the day is just wrong - your point seems to be that what Im saying couldn’t happen in 1e playing by the rules. That is also just wrong.

 

[werecorpse]

It depends Snarf Zagyg. I think I only did item saving throws if the pc failed the save. I do recall one funny death. My brother's pc failed a save on took only about 20 pts of damage. Then his helm of brilliance cooked off. The only thing that was left was his magic boots, the helm of brilliance with maybe 4 stones left. Because most of the stones failed their saves. And the party who were all now under 20 pts collected his ashes and ran back to town.
For those who did not do 1E the Spell DC for items IIRC correctly were more geared for the damage type they took. And if I would redo Item saves, I would make it simple. DC 2 to 5 depending on damage type, and item.

We May have not been RAW on this as well. Though I’m not sure the rules were clear on when you rolled. I think we played if you survived the effect you didn’t need to roll for all your gear. I do recall when someone targeted a specific weapon with disintegrate then they rolled on that table. I guess you could make all Fireball surviving monsters roll to see if their mundane armour and weapons fell apart?

I’m pretty sure the helm of brilliance was the only one that we made roll a save when the character failed their save. For the others most DM’s I played with only made characters roll for their gear if they died from the effect, if the item was targeted or not on a creature and some added in a requirement if you rolled a 1 and survived you had to roll for your items. Not sure where these rules came from, I think it was pre AD&D?

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I doubt that Gygax himself played 1e using most of the rules.

Link

*Fixed expired link

 

[Helldritch]

Using the books was way easier. The resumé is bigger than the original (well, almost)

 

[Nebulous]

Which is too bad, because otherwise it's an awesome system!

Then again, tweaking those effects or even removing them entirely shouldn't be that hard.

It's super easily tweakable. TWEAKED it might be my favorite DnD version of gaming. I love the system.

 

[Lanefan]

We May have not been RAW on this as well.

It doesn't sound like you were.

Though I’m not sure the rules were clear on when you rolled.

I think it's in the 1e DMG somewhere that items have to save if the character fails but are considered safe if the character makes its save. I know it's official 1e, I just don't remember the exact source.

I've no idea how Basic or 0e handled this; or 2e. 3e items only had to save if the character rolled a natural 1 on its own save - and wasn't there a thing in 3e where you only saved for items until one failed and then stopped? (i.e. you could only ever lose one item per event)

I guess you could make all Fireball surviving monsters roll to see if their mundane armour and weapons fell apart?

Not only could you, you were in theory supposed to for each monster that failed its save.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Clerical magic is a little more forgiving, though I do like the whole divine disapproval mechanic, in that it makes clerics more beholden to the edicts of their deity.

One thing I've really noticed with the magic system is that DCC RPG needs a persistent organized play system like Adventurers League and Pathfinder Society. When you are playing with a pregen that you'll never see again after this session, I've seen a couple people go completely nova with their spellburn on the final battle and just steamroll everything with a massive casting check result.

I've run it maybe five or six times. The magic system is awesome, but...punishing. The chance of successfully casting a spell seems too small, and a big chance of majorly screwing up.

 

[Monayuris]

I'd also like to say that old school D&D has literally got me back into the hobby. Without the OSR, I would have not have played nearly as much D&D as I have in the last 10 years. I burned out on the complexity on overly detailed rules of more modern editions and found a new inspiration in the freedom and creativity of the classic editions.

If you want to give old school gaming a spin, I highly recommend Basic Fantasy. It is free as a pdf, well supported with free supplements and bridges the gap between a modern approach and a true classic D&D experience. I suggest take an evening to download the rules and one of the adventure anthologies, approach it with an open-mind and try it out.

I have used it with my weekly open table D&D campaign that has ran for almost 2 years. Its on hiatus now due to coronavirus and personal life changes, but I sorely miss it.

I had players who were veteran old school players, veteran modern D&D players, and brand new players and it was universally well received... I had 8-10 players every week, for a time. That game was filled with some classic old school experiences.

Some of them off the top of my head...

The fighter used nothing but a torch and several flasks of oil to kill a dozen zombies, single handed.

The Disco Room... surfaces with reflective surfaces... pillars firing laser lights. Getting struck by such can cause some interesting detrimental effects. Overcome by a clever use of a bag of flour.

The party is in combat with a massive skeletal snake... one of the players, in the middle of the fight, decides to flee through an unexplored passage. He triggers a spike pit trap and falls to his death.

Level 1 Dwarf in a party battling a pair of giant scorpions. Stays in the back ranks for most of the fight. But then decides to enter the fray. Kills one with a mighty swing of his axe, but the other gets him with its stinger. Despite being a Dwarf and having a really good poison save, he botches the roll, and dies a glorious death.

A party of 2nd and 3rd level characters, with a single magic weapon between them all, managed to defeat 4 gargoyles using the environment and clever tactics.

A fighter used his bedroll to cover the head of a monster, allowing a wounded ally to withdrawal, safely.

And the maps! My game was a megadungeon and the players had to map for themselves. To get anywhere they had to use the maps to tell me the directions. Over the course of a year and a half they have collected about 10 pages of maps filled with notes, scribbles and question marks. These maps have become a physical relic of the campaign.

Edited to add: Anyone have want any more details and also anyone have any interesting old school experiences in their games?