D&D 5E Does the Artificer Suck?

[niklinna]

We tested an armorer and they get good at level 9/10.

That's a lotta levels to wait through to get good.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You have all that though. You have AC and defensive subclass abilities that are second to none and upcast false life gives you a ton of hps that stack right on top of your normal hps and gets you total hps near or even above what most martials have.

I think it depends heavily on the build.
If you use your high level spells on false life and so on and probably some on enhance ability (one of my favourite spells) you can cover a lot of ground.
You won't do too many wizardy things and that is totally ok.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That's a lotta levels to wait through to get good.

The artificer is good enough before. The armorer has a few problems before the armor can get more than one infusion. After that it starts becoming great.
On the other hand, probably you can get away with putting on a different helmet and boots, since you also use different boots and helmets for regular gear. Not being able to infuse the weapon offensively and the armor defensively is a bit of a set back, but you can always strap on a hield and put the enhancement on that piece. Before level 6 you only have one defensive enhancement anyway.

 

[ECMO3]

I think it depends heavily on the build.
If you use your high level spells on false life and so on and probably some on enhance ability (one of my favourite spells) you can cover a lot of ground.
You won't do too many wizardy things and that is totally ok.

Agree 100%.

This is a melee build and while you have some utility spells and a lot of low level rituals for out of combat use, you are not throwing fireball or bigbys hand or other things like that in combat very often. You might have a few prepared for flexibility purposes, but it is like the GWM Battlemaster who carries a few Javelins around to throw when swinging his greatsword is just not the best option or the traditional elf Wizard who has a long bow that he uses once a week when his cantrips are not ideal and he doesn't want to throw a leveled spell.

 

[Stoutstien]

That's a lotta levels to wait through to get good.

The armorer isn't bad before that point per se. Their damage is just on the low end of the curve. Now imagine a party that has this theoretical barbarian and blade singer in it. Adding a bug bear armorer slap boxing everybody acting as a resource multiplier for both of them.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You have all that though. You have AC and defensive subclass abilities that are second to none and upcast false life gives you a ton of hps that stack right on top of your normal hps and gets you total hps near or even above what most martials have.

Calling 20-30 THP “a ton of hps” is wild.

More importantly, we have firmly established that you view the game completely differently from me and anyone else whose games see Barbarians regularly tanking and never wizards tanking. There is no point in continuing this.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Calling 20-30 THP “a ton of hps” is wild.

More importantly, we have firmly established that you view the game completely differently from me and anyone else whose games see Barbarians regularly tanking and never wizards tanking. There is no point in continuing this.

But 20 to 30 thp is not bad at all. The difference between d12 and d6 is just 3 points on average per hit die. That is also just 30 hp for 10 levels. And the barbarian usually hit more often which rage mitigates.
I think it is interesting, that both the barbarian and the bladesinger (the updated one with prof bonus per long rest) have problems in the same kind of situations: after too many fights per day.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But 20 to 30 thp is not bad at all. The difference between d12 and d6 is just 3 points on average per hit die. That is also just 30 hp for 10 levels. And the barbarian usually hit more often which rage mitigates.
I think it is interesting, that both the barbarian and the bladesinger (the updated one with prof bonus per long rest) have problems in the same kind of situations: after too many fights per day.

Sure, though the Barbarian is also incentivized to max out Con, and his HP are actual HP, which means he gets them replenished when the Cleric or Druid does a group heal.

The Barbarian can also pretty much always use thier reaction for offense, as they don’t rely on reaction defense abilities to survive, which is part of why I reject out of hand the idea that “shield=HP”.

I do think Barbarians should get an ability like Evasion but for Con and Str saves, and/or eventually adv against charm effects.

Played a Gnome Rapier and Shield Barbarian/fighter once, really hard to dominate or charm, pretty unstoppable.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Sure, though the Barbarian is also incentivized to max out Con, and his HP are actual HP, which means he gets them replenished when the Cleric or Druid does a group heal.

The Barbarian can also pretty much always use thier reaction for offense, as they don’t rely on reaction defense abilities to survive, which is part of why I reject out of hand the idea that “shield=HP”.

I do think Barbarians should get an ability like Evasion but for Con and Str saves, and/or eventually adv against charm effects.

Played a Gnome Rapier and Shield Barbarian/fighter once, really hard to dominate or charm, pretty unstoppable.

The berserker gains more or less immunity to charm and fear... If they just had another ability at level 3 the sub class would be pretty cool.
I also like the idea of the gnome barb. With floating tasha style stats, a gnome barbarian is a force to be reckoned with.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The berserker gains more or less immunity to charm and fear... If they just had another ability at level 3 the sub class would be pretty cool.
I also like the idea of the gnome barb. With floating tasha style stats, a gnome barbarian is a force to be reckoned with.

Oh yeah. I’d love to play her again with the Tashas rules. The flavor of the rapier was basically a “Viking” sword of Gnomish make, and she was rad as hell.

Also I always forget about the Berserker.

We did homebrew a totem for her. Badger Totem, which gave +proficiency bonus to damage against large or larger creature, and proficiency in intimidation.