D&D 5E Does the Artificer Suck?

[UngeheuerLich]

Not that great of of a build for battlesmith. Not bad either just kinda unfocused and the use of the smite spells are a poor choice 90% of the time.

why didnt you also give them an additional magical item to make the comparison equal?

Smite spells are better than their reputation. For a paladin they are often redundant, but if you don't have access to divine smite and don't have anything else to concentrate on, they are ok.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It's probably better to compare with the cleric vs wizard. Or Paladin maybe both being half casters.

While a comparison with the paladin and the cleric is possible, the artificer is closer to the wizard if you look at cantrips and utility.
So in a way, the artificer is to the wizard, what the paladin is to the cleric and the ranger to the druid.
So it is ok that they only have d8 hp, because it is one step over the wizardvs d6.
They have cantrips that are actually useful in combat and what I observed in actual play at lower levels is that they bring a lot more versatility to the party than the paladin.

 

[FrogReaver]

Smite spells are better than their reputation. For a paladin they are often redundant, but if you don't have access to divine smite and don't have anything else to concentrate on, they are ok.

They tend to be as good or better for damage on paladins than concentration damage buffs - even haste

 

[UngeheuerLich]

They tend to be as good or better for damage on paladins than concentration damage buffs - even haste

That is good to hear. In a nova round, it is also important to note that you can use a smite spell and divine smite on the same hit.

 

[ECMO3]

False Life lasts 1 hour, and the norm is for attack values to vary within a given CR. If you aren’t frequently seeing enemies with attack values on the high end of the CR, your DM is taking it easy on you.

Ido see attack values on the high end of CR. I simply used the guidelines in the DMG to address your question precicely using mathematics. Regarless,attacks that will hit a Bladesinger will hit another character too, regardless of attack bonus.

False life lasts 1 hour and Barbarian's rage (or for that matter Bladesong) lasts 1 minute or less. On a high level Bladesinger, False Life is normally on before a battle starts, not always but it usually is.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not that great of of a build for battlesmith. Not bad either just kinda unfocused and the use of the smite spells are a poor choice 90% of the time.

why didnt you also give them an additional magical item to make the comparison equal?

Because on an artificer I’d almost never expect to get as many magic items as the other PCs. A magic weapon or shield or whatever would be fine, though.

As for the rest, strongly disagree on Branding Smite, it’s very good to have in the arsenal. The build isn’t especially unfocused, it just isn’t a CharOp forum build with one dimension.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Ido see attack values on the high end of CR. I simply used the guidelines in the DMG to address your question precicely using mathematics. Regarless,attacks that will hit a Bladesinger will hit another character too, regardless of attack bonus.

Irrelevant. The point is that the BS will get hit, will need to rely on those HP, and will drop more often or be forced to fall back more often, if the DM is actually challenging the group.

False life lasts 1 hour and Barbarian's rage (or for that matter Bladesong) lasts 1 minute or less. On a high level Bladesinger, False Life is normally on before a battle starts, not always but it usually is.

If you’re casting upcast false life, blur, and multiple shields in every single fight, you are bringing less efficacy to your party than any other Wizard build would.

Just knowing that you don’t use spell slots out of combat makes me wince at the thought of your Bladesinger in any party I’ve been involved in.

So, for the last time. We play vastly different games, CR is useless, and there is no point in continuing this.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Am I over or under thinking this?

I was planning to take heavily armored at level one. AC should be, well the best.

I thought of making the arcane firearm from a staff. Two handed is a d8.

I was going strength. I would get it to 16, but at higher level would go gauntlets of ogre power and belt of giant strength at really high level. But the point is that I would only boost attack stat to 16 and dump dex to 8 or 10.

I thought of going artillerist and using booming blade with the force ballista. My plan was to flavor it as a gauntlet that shoots like a black magic iron man.

at level 4 I would take gunner feat. So in total, variant human, two half feats and good melee opportunity with magic staff/arcane firearm as well as cannon.

often would use fairie fire for advantage. Since the cannon and blade cantrips are limitless would be free to use more utility spells.

just spitballing but with shield and false life, the best armor, I think the character could be pretty robust. Lastly, I would push con up since only worried about str to 16, intelligence otherwise.

I don’t want to play a quirky investor but a Gish like character that melees a lot, with as little quirky inventor flavor as possible.

was thinking the cannon could alternately be like a centipede that latches onto armor of character….

overpowered? No. Sturdy adventurer with good at will damage? Yes.

staff with bb and arcane firearm would be 3d8+4 (str and magic weapon infusion) and maybe more if force ballista (2d8) pushes and enemy want to come back. That’s level 5 anyway.

I could do reasonable damage in two attacks…if the creature wanted to come back at me after two hits and a push, add 2d8. Or of course have the healing going instead for regenerating “shield” hps

it’s not insane but reasonable and maybe saves some spells for utility and more roleplay (e.g. disguise self, etc).

this is all early level stuff. All the gadgets and options would no on a solid platform. I don’t see how they can ‘suck’ unless that is what you are going for.

 

[Stoutstien]

Because on an artificer I’d almost never expect to get as many magic items as the other PCs. A magic weapon or shield or whatever would be fine, though.

As for the rest, strongly disagree on Branding Smite, it’s very good to have in the arsenal. The build isn’t especially unfocused, it just isn’t a CharOp forum build with one dimension.

Fair is fair. Can't have a clean comparison if you aren't treating them the same as far as external factors are concerned. That's like someone giving the artificer a fighting style because half the classes get them.

Its actually the opposite. You have your infusions slots used on direct mitigation with the periapt if wound closure and repulsion shield instead of something like winged boots and cloak of protection that would add more EHP than those could plus additional damage and works in favor of being flexible address non combat challenges. It's unfocused as an artificer because it's too focused on one thing.

The smite spells always available for the battlesmith so there isn't much cost there but it's the combination of taking away your bonus action, which is a massive part of your flexibility, and your concentration that makes it a back up option rather than a first plan. It does work with ranged attacks so it has its place but 8 out of 10 times I'd probably use that slot on web or aid.

I'd take thornwhip above LL as well just because it's easier to use at any range rather than only within 10 ft. Cover isn't a big issue when you can fly for a better angle.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Fair is fair. Can't have a clean comparison if you aren't treating them the same as far as external factors are concerned. That's like someone giving the artificer a fighting style because half the classes get them.

It’s nothing like that at all. Fighting style is a class feature.

Its actually the opposite. You have your infusions slots used on direct mitigation with the periapt if wound closure and repulsion shield instead of something like winged boots and cloak of protection that would add more EHP

EHP doesn’t exist. Repulsion shield gives a +1 AC, making it strictly better than cloak of protection for a character that was going to use a shield anyway. Flying isn’t helpful for a tank.

than those could plus additional damage and works in favor of being flexible address non combat challenges. It's unfocused as an artificer because it's too focused on one thing.

Except it’s still able to do whatever artificer things you want, and you know you can change infusions, right? The last sentence isn’t even coherent.

The smite spells always available for the battlesmith so there isn't much cost there but it's the combination of taking away your bonus action, which is a massive part of your flexibility, and your concentration that makes it a back up option rather than a first plan. It does work with ranged attacks so it has its place but 8 out of 10 times I'd probably use that slot on web or aid.

An additional option doesn’t take away flexibility, it adds to it. Smite is there for when it’s time for a big hit to recenter attention on you. Any tank needs options for that in order to tank. Pure defense just makes you not a target.