D&D 5E Is Tasha's Broken?

[GMforPowergamers]

Realism(not simulationism) exists in D&D and has from the very beginning. It doesn't try to simulate reality, but realism is everywhere you look.

then you have no problem with variable stats... cause you can look at them, and everywhere you look is realism...

 

[Maxperson]

Just the whole awful thing.

Also referring to women as 'females' like they're test subjects makes my skin crawl, but that's neither here nor there.

I haven't seen anyone do that. Some folks thankfully have me blocked, so I imagine it's one of them.

 

[Maxperson]

then you have no problem with variable stats... cause you can look at them, and everywhere you look is realism...

Realism is a spectrum. Divorcing stat bonuses from race makes no sense from a realism standpoint and pushes the level of D&D realism in that regard down past where I like it to be. I don't mind necessary nonsense, like the combat rules, but unlike the combat rules, the Tasha's system is not necessary in order for the game to function well. I don't have to accept it.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Realism(not simulationism) exists in D&D and has from the very beginning. It doesn't try to simulate reality, but realism is everywhere you look.

Faux-realism is also a divine punishment.

 

[Oofta]

As opposed to the actual mountain that is people not knowing that the species portrayed by art of nothing but rippling slabs of muscle, and who the books describe as big and strong, AND who have a specific species ability to lets them lift and carry more weight... aren't strong because the special outliers among their people who are avatars of the players aren't forced to have a specific, minor bonus to the game statistic called Strength.

But hey, you do you.

And WotC will do better.

Yeah, heaven forbid any species be depicted as having an iconic look and feel. Every species should just be humans with rubber masks, right?

 

[Maxperson]

you are trying to twist your opinion on stats as based on facts

No. It's proven fact that the average man is stronger than the average woman, and that the strongest man is significantly stronger than the strongest woman. There is no opinion or twisting involved. Just like it's proven fact that women have greater endurance(constitution) than men do. Are you going to argue next that it's my opinion twisting some fact that a female black widow spider is a lot larger than a male black widow spider?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Biological fact: people are so varied that any 'average' is useless for measuring individuals.

"Men have more upper body strength" okay, but in how large of a sample size do we need before that evens out to that fact?

Not many, to be honest. I have seen studies with as few as 8 individuals of each sex and studies with hundreds. Both show the same fact: when it comes to muscular power, males (as a collective average) are stronger than females. In one study, males had an additional average of 26 lbs. of muscle than females. It is a slightly higher ratio in upper-body compared to lower-body, but males have more in both areas.

However, many of those studies show females have better muscle longevity, a more robust immune system, are better at coping with trauma, etc. Since those aspect (for our game) are more represented by exhaustion levels, we gave females one extra free level; so they need to have two levels before they begin to feel the effects.

In practical game terms, this means a male fighter with three levels of exhaustion will have disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws, while a female fighter would not have that penalty yet.

I should add: at one point we did do a male = STR +1, female = DEX, CON, or WIS +1 (player's choice). However, not wanting PCs of either sex to have a chance of less bonuses, we moved to the current system-- which incidentally we like much more as it represents the factors we wanted to incorporate.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:

Folks, this thread seems to have degraded into arguments about gender-based differences in strength in the real world. Aside from some technical inaccuracies I see, each word of this edges closer and closer to violating inclusivity policy, and tends to make folks look kinda sexist, even if they don't mean it to be so.

This disucssion, honestly, isn't really constructive, or even about the game any more. Can we move on to something else, please? Thanks all.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Deleted: In after red text.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Realism is a spectrum. Divorcing stat bonuses from race makes no sense from a realism standpoint

in realism how do we measure elf, goloiath or halfing str scores?