D&D 5E What rule(s) is 5e missing?

[James Gasik]

3.X, PF1, and 4e had rules for monster knowledge. In later 3.5 and in 4e, they tried to expand on this by having lore examples that a given DC could let the party know. There's a few too many monsters out there, that, lacking any info about what they can do, offer no real way to interact or plan around their strategies.

You just...get smacked by an ability you weren't aware of, and if you survive, well, you'll know next time. And if you don't, your next characters will run into the same problem...etc..

 

[Reynard]

3.X, PF1, and 4e had rules for monster knowledge. In later 3.5 and in 4e, they tried to expand on this by having lore examples that a given DC could let the party know. There's a few too many monsters out there, that, lacking any info about what they can do, offer no real way to interact or plan around their strategies.

You just...get smacked by an ability you weren't aware of, and if you survive, well, you'll know next time. And if you don't, your next characters will run into the same problem...etc..

Both of those approaches are fine. it just depends on the type of game you are playing. I reskin monsters and change up abilities all the time to try and hand on to a little bit of that wonder.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Both of those approaches are fine. it just depends on the type of game you are playing. I reskin monsters and change up abilities all the time to try and hand on to a little bit of that wonder.

The problem comes when that wonder leads to a feeling of being constantly lost and blindsided instead.

 

[Reynard]

The problem comes when that wonder leads to a feeling of being constantly lost and blindsided instead.

You are descending into a hole in the earth filled with weird and deadly monsters, for the purpose of pulling shiny baubles out of the ground. What would you expect?

Now, obviously, that's only one style of game and one sort of story you can tell with D&D. Sometimes certainty is good as a foundation on which to build a different kind of game that tells a different kind of story. But I like wonder in my games, even the terrifying kind, and I think most of my players appreciate it.

 

[payn]

The assumption of an effect like Guidance does seem to be present, but I've heard people claim that Guidance was a mistake (and apparently the developers have said so?), and there seems to be a lot of pushback towards players who want to use Guidance often.

Heck, when I suggested a player can throw out a Guidance every 10th turn for whatever die roll someone might need to make out of combat, I was told something to the effect that "that would be narratively ridiculous to me".

My analogy, a Sorcerer refreshing Dancing Lights ever 10th round for hands-free light sources, was also ill received, but I see that happen all the time at tables. /shrug

There does seem to be a lack of consensus about how difficult the game should be- I usually try to be a player advocate, because when I play the game, I look at what frustrates me and figure I can't be the only one.

Well that's two things going on here. How difficult things should be, and how often you should be able to spam cantrips. On one hand if you want dark dungeons to be a thing, you need a way to curb cantrip spam. If you dont think thats fun, you should just handwave that aspect away. The rule book straddles the fence and doesn't say one way or the other. So, tables have to decide themselves.

Some people want D&D characters to be heroes, and others want them to be The Mystery Men (look it up if you haven't seen it!). And the developers don't seem to want to come out and say which is a more apt description, so the people who play and DM this game keep butting heads about it.

The problem is the word hero/heroic. Folks interchange meaning all the time with it. Some folks (like myself) think hero to mean in deed. What you do is heroic, not what you are capable of physically/mentally. Where as other folks think of power when they define hero/heroic.

My opinion is that the game is best to start low powered so folks can have the average person stepping up and being a hero. Then, the power level ramps up significantly so folks can feel powerful from abilities.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You are descending into a hole in the earth filled with weird and deadly monsters, for the purpose of pulling shiny baubles out of the ground. What would you expect?

I'd... do may homework? There's a good chance I have a genius if not superhuman intellect and have lived in a world of monsters and magic all my life. Surely I should be able to recognize things quite often. Even I know what a tiger or a tapir or a water bear looks like and I'm not magic Reed Richards.

Now, obviously, that's only one style of game and one sort of story you can tell with D&D. Sometimes certainty is good as a foundation on which to build a different kind of game that tells a different kind of story. But I like wonder in my games, even the terrifying kind, and I think most of my players appreciate it.

But not everyone is you or your players and this kind of thing can often become frustrating instead of fun. My character just constantly feeling like an idiot who doesn't know how the world works is a problem for me. Wonder, to paraphrase a great, blue gent, is a sometimes food.

 

[Reynard]

I'd... do may homework? There's a good chance I have a genius if not superhuman intellect and have lived in a world of monsters and magic all my life. Surely I should be able to recognize things quite often. Even I know what a tiger or a tapir or a water bear looks like and I'm not magic Reed Richards.

But the rules don't apply DOWN THERE. DOWN THERE is a place of chaos and wyrd that touches the edges of what isn't. DOWN THERE is not of this world.

But not everyone is you or your players and this kind of thing can often become frustrating instead of fun. My character just constantly feeling like an idiot who doesn't know how the world works is a problem for me. Wonder, to paraphrase a great, blue gent, is a sometimes food.

Isn't that what I said, that this was simply my preference for a particular kind of game?

 

[James Gasik]

You are descending into a hole in the earth filled with weird and deadly monsters, for the purpose of pulling shiny baubles out of the ground. What would you expect?

Now, obviously, that's only one style of game and one sort of story you can tell with D&D. Sometimes certainty is good as a foundation on which to build a different kind of game that tells a different kind of story. But I like wonder in my games, even the terrifying kind, and I think most of my players appreciate it.

And if everyone at your table is having fun, that's great! I don't believe there's "one true way" to play D&D. But I do think it's a problem for most games more often than not. There are a lot of creatures that you need specialized knowledge to deal with and "just run away" doesn't always work as well as some might suppose.

 

[Vaalingrade]

But the rules don't apply DOWN THERE. DOWN THERE is a place of chaos and wyrd that touches the edges of what isn't. DOWN THERE is not of this world.

In the typical campaign, down there has been around centuries if not thousands of years in a world of super-geniuses. Down there should be better documented than up here because all the bad crap comes from down there. Er... DOWN THERE.

Isn't that what I said, that this was simply my preference for a particular kind of game?

The caps locks implies a certain vehemence. And that doesn't matter to a system written for a general audience.

 

[Vaalingrade]

There are a lot of creatures that you need specialized knowledge to deal with and "just run away" doesn't always work as well as some might suppose.

Whenever 'just run away' is invoked, I just take it to mean 'from that DM'.