D&D (2024) Ranger playtest discussion

[Charlaquin]

Message seems exactly the sort of thing a scout type character should have. Druidcraft is just lame all around though, particularly compared to prestidigitation.

Sending psychic telegrams does not seem like the sort of thing a ranger should do at all. Animal Messanger maybe, but message? No way.

 

[Charlaquin]

I hope you mean the abilities from tasha. The PHB abilities of similar name were very underwhelming...

I pretty much prefer the PHB versions across the board.

 

[niklinna]

I'm not sure what the Hunter subclass did to deserve a nerf.

While the Hunter's Mark boost is nice, they should really just go all the way and make it an at-will ability. It won't break the game WotC, I promise.

It isn't nerfed. It's simplified. So, you know, more people will feel comfortable playing it. Because it's absolutely too complicated right now, that's why everybody is so unhappy with the Ranger class.... Imagine if we had to choose from two dozen special abilities every couple levels! Heads would explode.

Oh wait warlock again.

 

[Weiley31]

Since 3e, actually. He even had a level in Barbarian in 3e, which was pants-on-head stupid.

I mean, 3.0/3.5 multiclassing was hella stupid at times too as well so it legit tracks.
I know some people LOVED their system mastery, but mother of mercy I didn't want to get a college degree for Multi-Classing to be able to tie my shoe and all that.

 

[niklinna]

I mean, 3.0/3.5 multiclassing was hella stupid at times too as well so it legit tracks.
I know some people LOVED their system mastery, but mother of mercy I didn't want to get a college degree for Multi-Classing to be able to tie my shoe and all that.

Having seen some of Treantmonk's videos, I'd say a college degree in Multi-Classing looks to still be very much A Thing.

 

[niklinna]

But that's the trick, it's ALL spells.

Spells are what they use to cover 90%* of magical effects. It's why many invocations end up being access to a spell (slow, bane, mage armor). It's why a robust psionics was abandoned for psionic spells and subclasses. Spells are a known quantity, an understood mechanic, and an easy way to expand the game later. In short, they are the hammer WotC has elected to use, and everything else is just a nail.

If it helps, think of spells akin to 4e powers, save they are explicitly magical.

Really all they had to do was have "spells" be descriptions of abilities with effects, that could be produced in various means, one of them being "casting a spell" (with VSM components and short cast times for use in combat), resulting in the effect being magical. Several abilities in the game do in fact duplicate the effects of spells without actually being magical or using the spellcasting rules. It's just ad-hoc instead of a designed system, as individual situations crop up where they need a certain effect, the spell desription is close enough, so hey let's save a few column inches and refer to that.

 

[niklinna]

It was until yesterday.
Now it is magharita.

Genuine pizza margherita is actually pretty awesome! Simple doesn't have to equal bland. But it does demand top-quality ingredients, not hothouse gas-ripened tomatoes and such.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Really all they had to do was have "spells" be descriptions of abilities with effects, that could be produced in various means, one of them being "casting a spell" (with VSM components and short cast times for use in combat), resulting in the effect being magical. Several abilities in the game do in fact duplicate the effects of spells without actually being magical or using the spellcasting rules. It's just ad-hoc instead of a designed system, as individual situations crop up where they need a certain effect, the spell desription is close enough, so hey let's save a few column inches and refer to that.

The problem with spells used this way is threefold

• There's baggage that comes with using the spells mechanic. Like dispels/counterspell/anti magic fields. It's a definite worldbuilding choice
• It sets everything onto the same "X times per day" schedule. 4e's AEDU was far more varied because it put things onto different schedules (which is why most of my favourite Invocations aren't spells or when they are they don't use spell resources).
• It makes everything feel homogenous with the same flavour rather than with none. As if everyone's a prosthetic forehead wizard

Edit: And by changing the Ranger from a "spells known" class where you can easily curate how your own ranger's metaphor works to a "spells prepared class" where every ranger has access to all ranger spells they've doubled down on how much it needs to be magic.

 

[niklinna]

The problem with spells used this way is threefold

• There's baggage that comes with using the spells mechanic. Like dispels/counterspell/anti magic fields. It's a definite worldbuilding choice

That's why I specified having different mechanics for triggering the effects of what are now only considered magical spells that you cast with VSM components.

• It sets everything onto the same "X times per day" schedule. 4e's AEDU was far more varied because it put things onto different schedules (which is why most of my favourite Invocations aren't spells or when they are they don't use spell resources).

This is already the case in 5e. (The new bits that recharge when you roll initiative were a pleasant surprise, actually, even if they come online very late.) My comment was based on the logic that given this is how WotC have been moving, a single catalog of special effects, with differing ways to trigger those, would save a bit of trouble. Of course that's treading into the horribly fraught territory of "power sources", which certain parts of the community...object to.

• It makes everything feel homogenous with the same flavour rather than with none. As if everyone's a prosthetic forehead wizard

Again, this is already the direction WotC is heading. I'd much rather have distinct abilities that are explicitly not magic, but it seems if an existing spell remotely does anything like a potential mundane ability, WotC just latch on to that.

Edit: And by changing the Ranger from a "spells known" class where you can easily curate how your own ranger's metaphor works to a "spells prepared class" where every ranger has access to all ranger spells they've doubled down on how much it needs to be magic.

Yep.

 

[Haplo781]

Really all they had to do was have "spells" be descriptions of abilities with effects, that could be produced in various means, one of them being "casting a spell" (with VSM components and short cast times for use in combat), resulting in the effect being magical. Several abilities in the game do in fact duplicate the effects of spells without actually being magical or using the spellcasting rules. It's just ad-hoc instead of a designed system, as individual situations crop up where they need a certain effect, the spell desription is close enough, so hey let's save a few column inches and refer to that.

That's confusing. We need a word for "spells" that aren't spells.

Like, I dunno, "power".