D&D (2024) Ranger playtest discussion

[Ruin Explorer]

Yeah, there's lots of actual examples of Wizards out there, like Belgarath, Skeeve, Grey Star, Lythande, or even that Dumbledore guy!

Isn't Belgarath more of a mega-Cleric than a Wizard, even though he looks and acts like a Wizard?

I think there are people who want an exploration character with combat strength and an combat character with exploration strength.

Every full caster in 5E is strong in combat and exploration.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Really? They can use their magic all day long without cost, there's spells for everything, especially in the expanded material, you can make magical objects and potions, harvest magical materials, and talented wizards don't even need wands! Plus you can throw out curses and death spells at will that apparently don't even have saving throws!

Hey according to Rowling there's even a spell for cleaning up after you poop in a corner and those wizards use it! You could probably use Prestidigitation to do that but eeeeesh maybe don't...

J.K. Rowling Revealed Why All Wizards Used to Poop Their Robes

Wingardium Levi-NOPE-sa.

www.teenvogue.com

 

[Haplo781]

Hey according to Rowling there's even a spell for cleaning up after you poop in a corner and those wizards use it! You could probably use Prestidigitation to do that but eeeeesh maybe don't...

J.K. Rowling Revealed Why All Wizards Used to Poop Their Robes

Wingardium Levi-NOPE-sa.

www.teenvogue.com

It's called prestidigitation...

 

[Minigiant]

Every full caster in 5E is strong in combat and exploration.

eh somewhat depending on your table.

My point is tha if your DM throws a Tier 3 exploration challenge at a nonmagical D&D PC, said PC needs houserules like Levelup or they will fail hard.

That's the issue of the ranger. The ranger is supposed to be good Tier 3 and Tier 4 exploration challenges. but the only ways that have an over 50% community satisfaction rate to beat those in D&D are magical.

 

[ersatzphil]

A lot of the fantasy I read as a kid seems to have been forgotten, like the Shannara stuff- Druids like Allanon are obviously Wizards!

I've actually had a @Snarf Zagyg style post brewing in my head for some time now about "D&D as oral tradition" vs. the Exploration pillar of play - most new players haven't read (in my experience) much in the way of older fantasy novels. I love Tolkien as much as anyone, but LotR definitely sucks all of the air out of the room for whatever reason. For Sparrowhawk / Fafhrd and the Grey Mauser / the Fellowship, getting to a new place is a big deal and a significant element of the story, while Tony Stark / Homelander / whoever can pop off to the Middle East for a big fight for the afternoon and be home in NYC for dinner. I really think that the received ideas / tropes of fantasy have shifted for the current generation.

 

[Islayre d'Argolh]

Good god, this is some truly profound internet point-missing during attempted point-scoring.

I've explained this a lot of time now, so nothing is to be gained explaining it again, but "WHOOSH" right over your head.

The only thing you explained, ad nauseam, is you're point of view, not the-hidden-but-complete-truth-about-rangers.

You use katniss as the iconic ranger : fine by me.
In 5e, Katniss can be described, close to the source material, as a Human Folk Hero Dex Fighter (Battlemaster) with the Archery fighting style.

Also for the record, i will add that a very good movie depiction of a ranger can be found in the 2003 movie The Hunted with Tommy Lee Jones, i suggest you take look.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That's the issue of the ranger. The ranger is supposed to be good Tier 3 and Tier 4 exploration challenges. but the only ways that have an over 50% community satisfaction rate to beat those in D&D are magical.

Absolutely not. This whole issue exists in your head. No-one objects to Rangers having strong non-magical exploration abilities.

Also for the record, i will add that a very good movie depiction of a ranger can be found in the 2003 movie The Hunted with Tommy Lee Jones, i suggest you take look.

Who could equally depicted as a Fighter by your own logic. Why accept him and not Katniss?

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's also insane to me how little-known the Earthsea novels seem to be among the current D&D community, particularly as the Moonshae Isles were more or less explicitly "let's put an Earthsea region into the Forgotten Realms". Though at the same time, I remember Sparrowhawk's best friend (who's name escapes me) singing a song to heal his wounds - very bard-y.

They don't have that D&D brand, and no one's made a movie.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The only thing you explained, ad nauseam, is you're point of view, not the-hidden-but-complete-truth-about-rangers.

You use katniss as the iconic ranger : fine by me.
In 5e, Katniss can be described, close to the source material, as a Human Folk Hero Dex Fighter (Battlemaster) with the Archery fighting style.

Also for the record, i will add that a very good movie depiction of a ranger can be found in the 2003 movie The Hunted with Tommy Lee Jones, i suggest you take look.

The big question is who is the example of a fictional non-D&D ranger that requires the 5e D&D ranger rules and can't be basically a fighter.

As it stands I've seen no counterexamples to my claim that the D&Done ranger would be better called the Hedge Wizard and is basically your jack of all trades class from the school of hard knocks. One part caster, one part expert, one part fighter. It's an adequate class but has almost nothing to do with either pre-2014 D&D rangers or non-D&D rangers.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I've actually had a @Snarf Zagyg style post brewing in my head for some time now about "D&D as oral tradition" vs. the Exploration pillar of play - most new players haven't read (in my experience) much in the way of older fantasy novels. I love Tolkien as much as anyone, but LotR definitely sucks all of the air out of the room for whatever reason. For Sparrowhawk / Fafhrd and the Grey Mauser / the Fellowship, getting to a new place is a big deal and a significant element of the story, while Tony Stark / Homelander / whoever can pop off to the Middle East for a big fight for the afternoon and be home in NYC for dinner. I really think that the received ideas / tropes of fantasy have shifted for the current generation.

I actually disagree and it's not random, I have a significant piece of evidence that runs directly against what you're saying:

The popularity of Game of Thrones, and the specific criticisms made of Game of Thrones - particularly by young people - about Season 6/7/8.

So, we can all hopefully agree Game of Thrones was a hugely popular fantasy TV series (however mad people were about the end, which is still only about 50% as mad as people were about the Sopranos ending, but w/e), particularly with people in their twenties and thirties (so the same people who play D&D, for the most part).

And what was one of the major criticisms people had of season 6/7/8? That suddenly the characters started "teleporting around".

Previously on GoT, journeys and getting places were indeed a huge deal. Young people understood that and internalized that. When the show started acting more like a superhero show where travel is meaningless and people just pop up everywhere, that's when they started getting annoyed with it. When travel that previously took two-three episodes and weeks or months of in-show time suddenly took what appeared to be at most a few days, they really didn't like it.

So whilst I agree young people today have read less "older fantasy" (even the '90s being older) than any previous generation, I don't agree that they don't think travel is important/difficult.