D&D (2024) December 1st UA Spell changes

[Stalker0]

I'm not sure the range makes sense.

Being able to help without proficiency sounds good. Doesn't stop the spam, but keeps bounded accuracy.

Another option is you want to just remove the spam entirely.

Guidance - duration 8 hours, target: self
You are proficient in all skills for the purpose of the help action.

 

[tetrasodium]

Ok, well that's a bit different from spamming it.

Hmmm....

Guidance: reaction. When a player rolls an ability check with disadvantage, give them advantage on the check, canceling the disadvantage.

I'm not sure that it's so much "different" as one of the big reasons why spells & abilities like guidance or expertise simply can't exist. Barring a return of GM tools like the old bonus types & dm's best friend things like expertise & guidance are in direct conflict of the apparent mathimatical underpinnings of oned&d. Bounded accuracy is destroyed by their low or no cost reliable application over & over & over again. The DC ladder & target DC for hide & the new influence actions very much makes it look like wotc wants to keep bounded accuracy part of the core mathematic foundation but having both just results in a mess thrown on the gm with a "here, you make it work".

That holds true unless the target DC's are set to always assume both are in use. A change where the DC's assume those (currently) BA busting spells & abilities are always in use would even do a lot of good with room opening up for players to need magic items from the GM & areas the GM can choose to fill without being limited to overloading monster math or DCs elsewhere.

 

[Clint_L]

The new iteration of guidance can't go live. It undermines the DM's ability to keep things secret because it can only triggers on a failure, meaning the DM has to tell you whether or not what you were attempting succeeded. But there are tons of situations where it's vital to the story that players don't know where an attempted action was successful. For example, if they are attempting to deceive someone.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The new iteration of guidance can't go live. It undermines the DM's ability to keep things secret because it can only triggers on a failure, meaning the DM has to tell you whether or not what you were attempting succeeded. But there are tons of situations where it's vital to the story that players don't know where an attempted action was successful. For example, if they are attempting to deceive someone.

I don't know if that matters, doesn't the soul knife already have a feature that triggers off of failing a skill check.

Psi-Bolstered Knack. When your nonpsionic training fails you, your psionic power can help: if you fail an ability check using a skill or tool with which you have proficiency, you can roll one Psionic Energy die and add the number rolled to the check, potentially turning failure into success. You expend the die only if the roll succeeds.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The question I'm increasingly asking myself: If the rationale for the aid and spiritual weapon nerfs is that they became "automatic" or "must-have" choices, what are the bless and spirit guardians nerfs going to look like?

Bless can just stay as it is. I am not so sure about spirit guardians.

 

[Greg Benage]

Bless can just stay as it is. I am not so sure about spirit guardians.

So you think spiritual weapon is a "must-have" spell in 5e, but bless is not?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Another option is you want to just remove the spam entirely.

Guidance - duration 8 hours, target: self
You are proficient in all skills for the purpose of the help action.

Make it last 1 minute and have it cost concentration and allow to take the help action from 30 ft, and now we are talking about the right power of a cantrip.

An 8 hour lasting cantrip would be a level 1 ritual...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

So you think spiritual weapon is a "must-have" spell in 5e, but bless is not?

Did I say that?
But spiritual weapon in 5e does not compete for your action nor your concentration.

 

[Greg Benage]

Did I say that?

No, but you were responding to my comment which took as its premise that the designers' stated reason for the spell changes is that they became "must-have" or "automatic" choices. So when you offered that bless could stay the same, the implication was that you didn't think it counted as a "must-have" or "automatic" choice, while spiritual weapon did. Thus, I asked a clarifying question. All good?

 

[mellored]

So you think spiritual weapon is a "must-have" spell in 5e, but bless is not?

Bless and healing word are both compelling level 1 choices.

Weather you cast bless in your level 2 slot, or spiritual weapon, or more healing words is now a hard choice too. Hold person can also be clutch in the right encounter.