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D&D (2024) December 1st UA Spell changes

Chaosmancer

Legend
I don't say it is good enough. This is why I suggest allowing to spend hit dice, when you are healed (not unlike 4e, where you spend a healing surge). This way you get meaningful healing without dragging out fights forever.

Healing needs to be handled with care.

Sure, it needs to be handled with care, but it also needs to be improved. However, many people claim that it is already too powerful and actually needs to be nerfed. So, clearly there are a lot of disconnects going on in the discussion around healing.

No. Whack a Mole is healing after the tank goes down. I spoke about healing before they go down. This is usually better for the tank's action economy.

I have not encountered whack-a-mole healing in 8 years of play, but hey, maybe I am doing it wrong.

Right, but consider the Scenarios

50/60 hp, you aren't going to heal.
40/60 hp you might heal, but it doesn't make a difference if you heal now compared to healing at 30/60 because +10 hp is +10 hp. It is the same net effect.

However, at 5 to 10 / 60 healing before the attack is pointless. The tank is going down whether you heal them or not, unless you get lucky and roll high while the enemy rolls low on their damage. (If they miss, then your healing didn't matter, because they didn't hit them anyways)

And this is an utterly bizarre thing that shouldn't be true. You can have such low-hp that the best healing a healer can dish out does not matter and will not keep you up. You can only buy one turn if you are lucky enough the damage randomizes to put you on that edge. So, the timing really doesn't matter, as long as you don't overheal and you don't wait until your healing is worthless, healing will have the same effect regardless. And that is the majority of the time that you COULD choose to heal.
 

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Clint_L

Legend
5e Healing Word is even more ridiculous, as often it results in you being so weak that a goblin could take you out with a thrown rock. So I refuse to prepare healing word, as I feel it's just a horrible waste of a spell slot.
To each their own. Trying to stay ahead of damage is a sucker's game in 5e though, and that's by design. Most combats only last a few rounds, so picking someone up in time for their turn is literally all that matters. If they get knocked down again after they go, who cares? Just pick them up again before their next turn if you need them, and if the combat is still going. Death saves are a resource - they are in effect an infinitely rechargeable extra hit point pool. It's smart to use them. And healing word is a bonus action with a 60 foot range that recharges death saves.

Cure wounds is an action, requires touch, and does 2 more points of healing than healing word. If you think 2 points of health is worth trading 60 foot range and a bonus action instead of action well...we see action economy very differently.

That's why I think healing word is broken and bad for the game. With healing word readily available, it is very, very hard for characters to die. It totally lowers the stakes in combat. I mean, death saves already do this, but when you combine them with healing word the encounter has to be incredibly tough or players incredibly bad for them to really be at risk. And it is widely available at level 1 as a bonus action at range, so the action economy is amazing. More encounters have been profoundly altered by healing word than any other spell in the game, which is why I think it is hands down the most powerful, consequential spell in 5e.

Not taking healing word because you think it is cheesy and broken I can respect. Not taking it because you think cure wounds is better is a difficult argument to make. I think it should be removed from the game.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
To each their own. Trying to stay ahead of damage is a sucker's game in 5e though, and that's by design. Most combats only last a few rounds, so picking someone up in time for their turn is literally all that matters. If they get knocked down again after they go, who cares? Just pick them up again before their next turn if you need them, and if the combat is still going. Death saves are a resource - they are in effect an infinitely rechargeable extra hit point pool. It's smart to use them. And healing word is a bonus action with a 60 foot range that recharges death saves.

Cure wounds is an action, requires touch, and does 2 more points of healing than healing word. If you think 2 points of health is worth trading 60 foot range and a bonus action instead of action well...we see action economy very differently.

That's why I think healing word is broken and bad for the game. With healing word readily available, it is very, very hard for characters to die. It totally lowers the stakes in combat. I mean, death saves already do this, but when you combine them with healing word the encounter has to be incredibly tough or players incredibly bad for them to really be at risk. And it is widely available at level 1 as a bonus action at range, so the action economy is amazing. More encounters have been profoundly altered by healing word than any other spell in the game, which is why I think it is hands down the most powerful, consequential spell in 5e.

Not taking healing word because you think it is cheesy and broken I can respect. Not taking it because you think cure wounds is better is a difficult argument to make. I think it should be removed from the game.
I suppose it just comes down to how I've learned to play spellcasters- I'm miserly with my spell slots, never knowing what I'm going to need in the rest of the day. The idea that I can burn all my spell slots giving people just enough hit points to stand (which effectively has no cost, unlike in previous editions where it could cost all your movement, or worse), just to be knocked down again by something slightly more dangerous than bad breath irks me.

I want more mileage out of my spell slots than that. Ideally, I'd be able to prevent people from falling down in the first place, but defensive spells are really terrible. Shield of Faith? 10% miss chance, and it takes my concentration.

I'm fully aware Cure Wounds is terrible, but I really feel better about possibly giving someone the ability to remain standing by my next turn so that I could maybe do something other than "healing word and a mediocre cantrip/weapon attack" in one encounter until I'm out of spell slots.

Again, I played in 4e, and people griped about "pop up healing" there, but you had 2 healing words in tier 1, and you couldn't afford to just heal people- you had to do some serious damage, debuff an enemy, do something else to win battles. And it wasn't like you could heal people all day long- almost all healing required spending surges, and once those were out, you were done.

So it really comes down to I don't like this paradigm, where combat healing is atrociously feeble, out of combat healing is plentiful, and "being a healer" means to slap duct tape on a guy bleeding out so he can freaking regenerate like a troll later.

At least until you can cast heal, I suppose.
 

Clint_L

Legend
Yeah, I agree that 5e's pop-up healing paradigm is dumb. I didn't love 4e's healing any better, though, and maybe less. It's a really fine line because if you make healing too good combat becomes even more boring than it is now.

Actually, let's be honest: combat in D&D is the least interesting part of the game, isn't it? A borked healing system is only part of it, but combat takes forever and offers a low entertainment return on the time invested.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Yeah, I agree that 5e's pop-up healing paradigm is dumb. I didn't love 4e's healing any better, though, and maybe less. It's a really fine line because if you make healing too good combat becomes even more boring than it is now.

Actually, let's be honest: combat in D&D is the least interesting part of the game, isn't it? A borked healing system is only part of it, but combat takes forever and offers a low entertainment return on the time invested.
And yet, most players seem to really enjoy combat. Go figure.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
it's not like gold matters by the default removal of player agency in meaningful purchases.
Players are not entitled to purchase whatever magic items they want. Doing so is a privilege granted by some DMs, so there is no loss or removal of agency when you can't do it.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I'm not saying that clerics don't have utility. I'm saying that HEALING isn't utility. It's the necessary butt wiping to allow the party to have fun and the adventure to proceed. Moreover, it competes with the other stuff clerics can do, and shares the same resources.
Healing is utility. Hit dice are a resource quickly used up in an adventuring day if the DM is going by the guidance in the DMG and healing potions aren't so plentiful that they can take the place of a cleric.
There's a reason healers are typically the least played classes in MMO's.
Yep. You can sit and rest pretty much infinitely and heal in seconds and the same with mana, so you don't need many healers relative to DPS. D&D is not an MMO, though, so apples and oranges. D&D healing is a small fraction of the possible healing you can get in an MMO.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Only if facing a CR 1 or lower creature. Beyond that, damage is often far higher than 1d8+3
If the target is at low single digit hit points when you cast the spell, that's true. However it is often cast before that point when the 1d8+3 can give you enough extra hit points that when combined with your own can keep you up for another round.
 

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