D&D 5E Companion Thread to 5E Survivor - Weapons

[RealAlHazred]

Isn't a khopesh a fairly hefty weapon? More an axe than a sword? I dunno if I would describe it as a Finesse weapon

I'll do you one better, historically it's only sharpened on the outside edge, which completely foils the use my player put it to. That one was basically designed to fit the player's style, but I like the idea of a slightly-heavier finesse weapon, and the khopesh was designed so you could snag someone's arm to unbalance them, or trip them, with technique, and in D&D that's represented better by Dexterity-based attacks.

 

[RealAlHazred]

I also like a fix I saw on Brandes Stoddard's blog, where Spears are 1d6 damage (Versatile 1d8) only for those with Simple Weapon Proficiency. If you have Martial Weapon Proficiency, then you do 1d8 damage (Versatile 1d10). It keeps Spears useful for Fighters, which is where I want them for flavor purposes.

 

[RealAlHazred]

Also also, since we're talking weapons and I mentioned Brandes Stoddard's blog, I recommend his fix for Two-Weapon Fighting as well. He devoted a deep-thought post to it, and I like the relatively simple solution he found.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Is a two-handed requirement really that much of a sacrifice, though? Arguably the nunchaku would be used mostly by monks for thematic reasons, and they don't use shields anyway and can make off-hand attacks with their feet, knees, elbows, etc.

it's at least a minor one to justify the larger d10 compared to the rapier's d8, honestly i'd rather of added some sort of +AC when used with both hands but seeing as that isn't anything available as a weapon property in 5e i had to settle for something else, and while it's tied thematically to the monk it's still an alternative for other classes who get martial weapons who might want to choose between a stronger finesse weapon or using a shield.

 

[Tonguez]

that's not an inherent fault of the rapier itself though, more due to the fact that there aren't any same tier alternatives for melee dex, when your only other options are also all 1-handed weapons that deal less damage and b/s/p is basically irrelevant of course you're going to pick rapier if you're proficient in it and one is available to you.

look i recognise that DEX is a bit of a god stat in 5e and finesse weapons shouldn't quite be on the same level as STR weapons because of that but i do think there should be more viable alternatives for your dex weapon if want to melee. so a fun game for everyone, what mid-to-high-tier finesse weapons would you add and what stats would you give them? here's my go:
Nunchuck, martial weapon
damage: 1d6 bludgeoning
properties: finesse, versatile (1d10)
other: compatable with shillelagh
yes i'm aware i skipped a whole damage die, i don't want this to be as good as the rapier one-handed but i want it better at the cost of using two hands.

really the solution is to drop rapier back to 1d6 since there is absolutely no logical rationale for the rapier doing more damage than the scimitar, short sword or spear.

and making nunchuka 1d10 with two hands is just weird, nunchuka is a swingy flail, its not getting that much better as a short stick. Youd be better off with a canne or someother short staff.

personally I’d love to see something like 4e Weapon groups and allowing proficient martials to add qualities and bonuses they want

 

[CreamCloud0]

really the solution is to drop rapier back to 1d6 since there is absolutely no logical rationale for the rapier doing more damage than the scimitar, short sword or spear.

and making nunchuka 1d10 with two hands is just weird, nunchuka is a swingy flail, its not getting that much better as a short stick. Youd be better off with a canne or someother short staff.

personally I’d love to see something like 4e Weapon groups and allowing proficient martials to add qualities and bonuses they want

personally i'd rather we have interesting decisions to make between our available weapons rather than total fidelity their realworld counterparts, if we drop rapier to 1d6 then what's the point of it existing beyond being a more expensive shortsword without the light property? so sure, you could have nunchucks deal finesse 1d4 like a club with ideas above it's station but is that actually a fun thing to put in the game? it's no wonder everyone uses the rapier if this is their alternative.

unfortunately i don't know anything about those 4e mechanics.

 

[CleverNickName]

personally i'd rather we have interesting decisions to make between our available weapons rather than total fidelity their realworld counterparts, if we drop rapier to 1d6 then what's the point of it existing beyond being a more expensive shortsword without the light property? so sure, you could have nunchucks deal finesse 1d4 like a club with ideas above it's station but is that actually a fun thing to put in the game? it's no wonder everyone uses the rapier if this is their alternative.

unfortunately i don't know anything about those 4e mechanics.

Alright. Stop what you're doing because I'm about to ruin the weapons and the styles that you're used to.

Given this "abstract nature of hit points and damage" that I keep hearing so much about...what if all weapons only did the same amount of 'don't call it damage' on a successful hit? From daggers to greatswords, they all use the same d6 damage and were distinguished from one another by other, more interesting things like:

• the type of damage (Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing)
• one or more special descriptors (like Heavy, Finesse, Two-Handed, Reach, etc.)
• Advantage/Disadvantage on certain actions (Advantage on knocking your opponent prone, for example)
• I'm sure there are more, this is just off the top of my head

Would this fix the 'rapier problem'? or would it just make a lot of other problems?

 

[CreamCloud0]

Alright. Stop what you're doing because I'm about to ruin the weapons and the styles that you're used to.

Given this "abstract nature of hit points and damage" that I keep hearing so much about...what if all weapons only did the same amount of 'don't call it damage' on a successful hit? From daggers to greatswords, they all use the same d6 damage and were distinguished from one another by other, more interesting things like:

• the type of damage (Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing)
• one or more special descriptors (like Heavy, Finesse, Two-Handed, Reach, etc.)
• Advantage/Disadvantage on certain actions (Advantage on knocking your opponent prone, for example)
• I'm sure there are more, this is just off the top of my head

Would this fix the 'rapier problem'? or would it just make a lot of other problems?

sorry but with how...critical your message came across as i feel like you think i have a specific viewpoint that i'm honestly not quite sure what it is, why not have a bunch of weapons that do the stuff you suggest and that have a range of damage and properties that work or are more apropriate to being used with different fighting styles and builds?

and i'm really not getting what you're trying to get at with your last line, how do you define the 'rapier problem' and what other problems are you expecting the things you suggested to cause? if the rapier problem is that it's numerically the best choice for DEX melee then what was the issue with me saying that the nunchuck(or any other new weapon) should be powerful yet different enough to be considered a viable alternative to pick it in different situation rather than having more 'realistic' stats.

tangentially i'm really not good at picking up subtext so if you could actually state your meaning plainly rather than making me try to parse your implications from rhetorical questions that would be wonderful.

 

[CleverNickName]

(Sorry, I thought that would read as a Humpty Dance reference.)

What I'm suggesting is: what if all weapons had the same damage dice...like maybe d6 or a d8. So whether you are using a dagger or a greatsword, you deal (d6 + ability modifier) damage with it. The difference between the two would be the dagger having the Finesse, Light, and Thrown properties, and the greatsword having the Heavy and Two-Handed properties.

The two weapons are distinct because of their properties, not because of their damage amounts. Because as others have mentioned elsewhere in these forums: hit points are supposed to be abstract anyway, and 'damage' isn't necessarily the size of the cut a weapon makes on your torso. So damage could be d6 for everything (and d8 if you're using two hands), and the issue that some people have about the rapier being 'too good' would be solved.

At the end of the day, though, the difference between a d6 and a d8 is less than 1 point (on average). So this feels like a tempest in a teapot to me anyway.

 

[CreamCloud0]

(Sorry, I thought that would read as a Humpty Dance reference.)

What I'm suggesting is: what if all weapons had the same damage dice...like maybe d6 or a d8. So whether you are using a dagger or a greatsword, you deal (d6 + ability modifier) damage with it. The difference between the two would be the dagger having the Finesse, Light, and Thrown properties, and the greatsword having the Heavy and Two-Handed properties.

The two weapons are distinct because of their properties, not because of their damage amounts. Because as others have mentioned elsewhere in these forums: hit points are supposed to be abstract anyway, and 'damage' isn't necessarily the size of the cut a weapon makes on your torso. So damage could be d6 for everything (and d8 if you're using two hands), and the issue that some people have about the rapier being 'too good' would be solved.

At the end of the day, though, the difference between a d6 and a d8 is less than 1 point (on average). So this feels like a tempest in a teapot to me anyway.

hmmm, changing it so all weapons to deal the same damage relatively seems like you're just removing an axis for weapons to distinguish themselves through, IMO there should be weapons that are superior to others because certain classes should have access to more powerful weapons but only in the sense of there being different tiers of weapon like simple and martial, but weapons of a tier should be aproximately of equal power (once you factor in their respective properties that are either boon or hindrance),
edit: did that make sense what i meant?
edit edit: like i remember seeing a 'weapon creator template' where all weapons started with d8 then 'additive' properties like reach or finesse droped you down a damage die size and 'restrictive' properties like heavy or two-handed increase your die size, i'm basically saying apply that to where we have simple, basic and martial weapons which respectively start with a d6, d8 and d10 and get their damage modified further from their properties.