D&D 5E Companion Thread to 5E Survivor - Weapons

[bedir than]

Baton - take the club, add finesse and make it cost more. Let those rogues knock people out with a weapon designed for it.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Let those rogues knock people out with a weapon designed for it.

A frying pan?

 

[Tonguez]

(Sorry, I thought that would read as a Humpty Dance reference.)

What I'm suggesting is: what if all weapons had the same damage dice...like maybe d6 or a d8. So whether you are using a dagger or a greatsword, you deal (d6 + ability modifier) damage with it. The difference between the two would be the dagger having the Finesse, Light, and Thrown properties, and the greatsword having the Heavy and Two-Handed properties.

The two weapons are distinct because of their properties, not because of their damage amounts. Because as others have mentioned elsewhere in these forums: hit points are supposed to be abstract anyway, and 'damage' isn't necessarily the size of the cut a weapon makes on your torso. So damage could be d6 for everything (and d8 if you're using two hands), and the issue that some people have about the rapier being 'too good' would be solved.

At the end of the day, though, the difference between a d6 and a d8 is less than 1 point (on average). So this feels like a tempest in a teapot to me anyway.

I for one would absolutely love this system as it clearly makes things about Character ability instead of weapon choice.
In truth I didnt play 4e but when I took timeto look at Weapon groups and the various properties and group feats I got excited at the potential. The formula for building different weapons via mixing groups, properties and feats is something I’ve been toying with but havent really progressed much.

Isn't a khopesh a fairly hefty weapon? More an axe than a sword? I dunno if I would describe it as a Finesse weapon

in 4e Kopesh is one-handed military weapon in the Heavy blade and Axe groups with properties Versatile and Brutal 1

 

[Undrave]

in 4e Kopesh is one-handed military weapon in the Heavy blade and Axe groups with properties Versatile and Brutal 1

I know but I didn't want to 'but 4e!' it.

 

[RealAlHazred]

One nice innovation of Dungeon World was that the character classes do weapon damage based on their hit die size. So, no matter what weapon a Fighter uses, he rolls a d10. No matter what weapon a Wizard uses, he rolls a d4. It's all about training to get the most effectiveness out of the weapon. Since there's no multiclassing in Dungeon World, edge cases like "sword-mages" need a special class with hit dice in between somewhere, or else some special ability that lets them roll a different die; otherwise they're stuck with the d4.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Not gonna participate in this one, but this comment thread gives me the chance to say, as with 4e, I have long wanted rules for how to design new weapons for 5e, especially if those rules include a robust list of weapon properties to make weapons more interesting. I think one of the reasons 5e lets Fighters down is that it made all the weapons bland and boring and removed almost all of the special things that could make "being a master of weapons" actually interesting.

Frankly, I feel like they should have preserved the "exotic" weapon category, but made it the exclusive or near-exclusive domain of Fighters. That is, give Fighters multiple Fighting Styles (so they have reason to carry around multiple weapons), and then access to Exotic Weapons that are powerful but tricky to wield. This would also get rid of ridiculous things like the trident, which as it exists in 5e is completely pointless. Instead, it could become part of the exotic dual-weapon Trident-and-Net (drawing on the Latin "retiarius" gladiatorial equipment) focused on lockdowns and control. This would also help make the Champion better and more interesting, as instead of getting just bonus fighting styles (which is mostly a waste), you could grant them extra exotic weapons.

One nice innovation of Dungeon World was that the character classes do weapon damage based on their hit die size. So, no matter what weapon a Fighter uses, he rolls a d10. No matter what weapon a Wizard uses, he rolls a d4. It's all about training to get the most effectiveness out of the weapon. Since there's no multiclassing in Dungeon World, edge cases like "sword-mages" need a special class with hit dice in between somewhere, or else some special ability that lets them roll a different die; otherwise they're stuck with the d4.

The DW SRD website offers the technically 3PP but unofficially-supported Arcane Duelist playbook for this purpose. Our party Bard is nicking stuff from it to get a more well-rounded skillset, as he's kind of hyperspecialized in support at present.

Had some really quite fun scenes where said Bard received tutelage in Raqsa Shifrat Al-Sahhir, the Dance of the Wizard's Blade, from Prince Sahl His Majesty, His Eminence, Sahl Thaqib Humaidan al-Nazar yatt-Asmar, Prince of the South Wind. It was both an opportunity for said Bard to show off his social flair and ability to pick up the fundamentals of new skills quickly, and a chance for me to dazzle the player with the kinds of things an absolute master of the Raqsa can achieve (essentially, chaining together several Techniques in rapid succession.) I'm still quite proud of just how well the scene played out.

 

[Corinnguard]

Saw a couple more I have in my notes, mainly for flavor purposes. Khopesh for the Egyptian-descended culture (because players expected it, ahistorical or not). And the war scythe for a few Death gods (again, because the player requested it.) Now that I think of it, that's why the spiked chain and repeating crossbow are in there, also...

Khopesh
melee weapon (martial)
Damage: 1d8
Damage Type: Slashing
Properties: Finesse
Weight: 4 lb.
Cost: 25 gp

War Scythe
melee weapon (martial)
Damage: 1d10
Damage Type: Slashing
Properties: Heavy, two-handed
Weight: 7 lb.
Cost: 18 gp

In my first 5e D&D adventure, my Dragonborn Fighter (Scout Variant-D&D Wiki) went from using a pair of short swords to using a pair of masterwork Khopesh swords. Like the subclass, I came across the Khopesh on D&D Wiki and liked them because they were, at the time, light finesse weapons that did 1d8 points of damage. I also liked them because it meant that I didn't have to pick up the Dual-Wielder feat to use them.

One weapon that I am glad to see again in Level Up are Double Weapons. They aren't cheap. They cost about 150 gp. But they have the Dual-Wielding, Parrying and Two-Handed traits.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I think the heavy property of weapons would be more interesting if it instead functioned as a STR requirement else have disadvantage with the weapon, rather than messing with smaller species available weapons

 

[CleverNickName]

The more I look at this list of weapons, the more I want to get rid of the Finesse property. Wholesale. Just remove it from weapons altogether.

I can already hear people protesting, "But that would completely hose a high-dex melee character!" And I disagree, because high-dex melee characters are already benefitting greatly from a higher AC and a higher initiative. Seems like a fair trade to me.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The more I look at this list of weapons, the more I want to get rid of the Finesse property. Wholesale. Just remove it from weapons altogether.

I can already hear people protesting, "But that would completely hose a high-dex melee character!" And I disagree, because high-dex melee characters are already benefitting greatly from a higher AC and a higher initiative. Seems like a fair trade to me.

Whereas I would like to go the other direction.

Add properties which are interesting but which are incompatible with finesse. 4e had plenty of interesting ideas to mine (High Crit, Brutal N, Defensive, the unnamed but effectively existent "Accurate" property, Defensive, Stout), and you can bring in others too. E.g.:

• Finesse (Dex for attack/damage)
• Brutal N (reroll damage die until it shows a total greater than N)
• High Crit (+1d6/5 levels damage when landing a crit with this weapon)
• Defensive (+1 AC when wielding at least one defensive weapon, does not stack with shields)
• Stout (counts as a two-handed weapon for relevant features)
• Heavy (not sure--perhaps multiplying your Strength bonus to damage?)
• Reach (attack from further away)
• Polearm (long-hafted weapon with potential uses for said haft)
• Unstoppable (increase crit range by 1)
• Savage (essentially, "advantage on damage")
• Blunt (replace normal damage with average damage, rounded down, e.g. 1d6 -> 3)
• Light/Heavy Thrown (can be used for non-improvised Dex/Str ranged attacks within a defined range)
• Accurate (+1 to hit)
• Shieldbreaking (+1 to hit against opponents benefiting from a shield or Defensive weapon)
• Entangling (successful attack with this weapon counts as a grapple against the target)
• Heavy draw (+Str and Dex to damage)

Etc.

Keep the names simple, the effects straightforward. Perhaps, if necessary, classify properties as "half" as big as others, e.g. Entangling, Stout, and Blunt are pretty weak for most weapons. Make a weapon list that ensures each property appears at least once on something, and then include optional DMG rules for designing new weapons with suggested point values for simple, martial, and exotic weapons. Perhaps some properties cost "nothing," as they are merely descriptive unless some other benefit (fighting style, feat, class feature) comes into play, e.g. heavy (if unmodified) or polearm.

Then I could finally have my defensive, accurate, reasonably-good-damage swordstaff. Which was not only a real weapon, but (apparently) a pretty useful one if you knew how to wield it.