D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Minigiant]

Ah, you seem to have put those in the wrong order. After all, the human has a strength of 20, so it would be

Orc Chief, Ogre, Human or Storm Giant.

I mean limits not standard.

Humans has STR 11. The elite human tops at Strength 19 by rolling a 18 with a +1 racial.

An orc chief has Powerful Build and can go slightly over 20 with the Divine Blessing of a War god to Strength 22.

Ogres are STR 19. The elite ogre who rolls an 18 is STR 27 and Large size.

The base storm giant has STR 29. The elite storm giant who rolls a 18 is STR 37. Both are Huge size.

 

[James Gasik]

Over many long battles, replacing lost blood with healing potions, the Fighter becomes a magical creature, able to act more times in a turn, regenerate massive amounts of damage over the course of a day, and even somewhat resist unusual effects...

Wait, they can already do that. Why are we saying the Fighter isn't supernatural again?

 

[Yaarel]

D&D tends to avoid a theory of magic. If there are "rules" for how magic works, then it is easier to explain how the Fighter class can interact with those rules.

For example, each Fighter has a body and a "soul". The soul implies innate mystical and magical characteristics. The 5e rules refer to the soul but never define it. Consider the soul has levels of the soul.

For example, a Fighter can bypass a Wall of Force because the Fighters "Soul" (Spirit) can displace it.

SOUL	PLANE	CONCEPT	APPLICATION
Mind	Astral (Celestial, Fiend, Aberration)	Consciousness	Awaken, Astral Projection, Positive Energy, Negative Void
Spirit	Ethereal (Fey, Shadow)	Self, Influence	Mental Effects, Force Effects, Enchantment, Psionics
Aura	Material	Lifeforce	Bodily Aura, Shapeshifting, Living Ki, Dead Necromancy

 

[Minigiant]

Over many long battles, replacing lost blood with healing potions, the Fighter becomes a magical creature, able to act more times in a turn, regenerate massive amounts of damage over the course of a day, and even somewhat resist unusual effects...

Wait, they can already do that. Why are we saying the Fighter isn't supernatural again?

I long believed there should be a warrior class based on magical alteration similiar to the warlock.

And the core free subclass is the Warrior who drank so many potions that he became magical.
Basically your body produces magical steriods that rapidly heal you and allow you to use more of your muscles (mother lifting car off baby strength)

 

[Pedantic]

Over many long battles, replacing lost blood with healing potions, the Fighter becomes a magical creature, able to act more times in a turn, regenerate massive amounts of damage over the course of a day, and even somewhat resist unusual effects...

Wait, they can already do that. Why are we saying the Fighter isn't supernatural again?

That's just the problem though. Alchemy as ascension is a totally valid archetype that would easily justify other powers, including the big ones like flight. If that was explicit in the text, we wouldn't have a struggle.

Body tempering through battle, blue mage style absorption of enemy powers over time and exposure, empowerment through legend, all workable and potential justifications for useful high level effects. There's a ton of martially inclined archetypes we could be playing with.

The problem, as ever, is that "explicitly nonmagical warrior" doesn't scale, and eats up all the design space in the room, while setting up a power budget that doesn't really make sense.

 

[Incenjucar]

Easy answer to the mundane power concern is keeping in mind that souls exist in-game, period, no debate. Whenever a mundane character is doing something you find difficult to accept, it's because their soul is more powerful than physics. Bonus: This gives you good reason for martial souls to be a hot commodity and to result in terrifying undead and demons.

 

[James Gasik]

That's just the problem though. Alchemy as ascension is a totally valid archetype that would easily justify other powers, including the big ones like flight. If that was explicit in the text, we wouldn't have a struggle.

Body tempering through battle, blue mage style absorption of enemy powers over time and exposure, empowerment through legend, all workable and potential justifications for useful high level effects. There's a ton of martially inclined archetypes we could be playing with.

The problem, as ever, is that "explicitly nonmagical warrior" doesn't scale, and eats up all the design space in the room, while setting up a power budget that doesn't really make sense.

Sure, but my point is, the Fighter already has several abilities that, if you think about it, make no sense if one claims they are grounded and non-fantastic in nature. Who needs Hit Dice? 24d10+24xCon free healing a day, the ability to take extra actions, the power to reroll failed saves (it's terrible, but it's certainly not something normal people can do!), the ability to attack twice as much as any other combat-focused class- is it possible the Fighter is already fantastic, and we don't really need a justification to give them additional powers?

 

[Remathilis]

Ooh, I know!

Fighters use the magic that flows throughout the world, but rather than drawing it into their core, and using it to cast spells, they flood there body with magic to push their body beyond "human" limits, and to do amazing feats of martial prowess, like healing their own wounds, moving twice as fast as normal person, or catching knives out of the air. These heroic exploits could scale up at the fighter gains levels, allowing them to perform amazing heroic feats, like shattering barriers, both magical and mundane with a single blow, standing back up after they've been taken out, charging across the battlefield, trampling all in their path, and parrying/blocking impossible things...

Chefs use the magic that flows throughout the world to create magnificent feasts that can heal wounds, cure disease and even illicit emotions in those who eat it.

Smiths use the magic that flows throughout the world to craft tools, armor and weapons that never break, rust, or dull.

Farmers use the magic that flows throughout the world to grow large, blight-resistent crops capable of feeding empires.

Horses use the magic that flows throughout the world to run fast as the wind over land, water and the sky itself.

Handy explanation, magic of the world. Makes anything mundane into a supernatural ability. And don't get me wrong, I'm actually a fan of it; a world so infused with magic that the fantastical is commonplace is both compelling and on brand for D&D. It's not a world that resembles Earth anymore, but that's not a bad thing either. But it does ask D&D to lean towards the Eberron side of the scale rather than the Middle Earth side.

So yes, that works. If we are abandoning the notion that D&D resembles reality. It never really did that well to begin with, so it's not a loss to me.

 

[Remathilis]

I long believed there should be a warrior class based on magical alteration similiar to the warlock.

And the core free subclass is the Warrior who drank so many potions that he became magical.
Basically your body produces magical steriods that rapidly heal you and allow you to use more of your muscles (mother lifting car off baby strength)

Cough blood hunter cough

 

[Remathilis]

That's just the problem though. Alchemy as ascension is a totally valid archetype that would easily justify other powers, including the big ones like flight. If that was explicit in the text, we wouldn't have a struggle.

Body tempering through battle, blue mage style absorption of enemy powers over time and exposure, empowerment through legend, all workable and potential justifications for useful high level effects. There's a ton of martially inclined archetypes we could be playing with.

The problem, as ever, is that "explicitly nonmagical warrior" doesn't scale, and eats up all the design space in the room, while setting up a power budget that doesn't really make sense.

Perfect. 10/10.