D&D (2024) Rogue's Been in an Awkward Place, And This Survey Might Be Our Last Chance to Let WotC Know.

[Mistwell]

In a fantasy setting, dragons are "ordinary threats", especially if they inhabit nearby.

It's listed as legendary, and very high level. It's not ordinary, by any definition. It's an extraordinary threat.

Depending on which region one is in, it might be the towns are constantly warring against each other, in which case everyone trains militarily. They do army training like moderns do middle school and high school. Time is set aside for it, and it tends to be fun, learning to wrestle, shoot arrows, and swordfight and so on.

There is no precedent for that other than possibly Sparta. There is no way to survive, food wise, in such a civilization without other civilizations supporting yours. Often through constant conquest.

Town citizens arent farmers, albeit the wealthy often have country estates and know how to.

Yes, 90% needed to labor growing food in a small enclave of 1000.

 

[Mistwell]

This is very bad history.

The vast majority of Vikings were also farmers or other “townsfolk” jobs.

The only warrior societies where the trained warriors weren't also in the town (a town being a collection of farms with a central meeting place and maybe a hostel or inn for travelers if it’s close to a pilgrimage or trade road) were ones with a dedicated slave class, like the Spartans with their Helot slaves.

Most high conscription societies you only had people in the military for several years of thier youth, after which they go home and start making the next generation of farmers and warriors.

Even the “most don’t survive” line is false. In most battles, the majority of combatants survived.

I disagree and did the research before posting. I'd say yours is very bad history. I was citing the range of numbers I found.

 

[Mistwell]

Not guard. Militia. A lot of able bodied men were given a minimum amount of training so that during wartime or an emergency, they could be called up to fight. These are not the guards you mention, but additional men that are proficient in a few weapons. They generally also had low morale, since they were not drilled constantly to fight and not run like soldiers and guards were.

I saw numbers that some cities trained every able bodied man like that, so you'd see 10-20% of the population able to be called up in an emergency. So going to that town of 1000, there would be 50-100 guards and another 100-200 militia. That's IF it were one of the hardcore towns that trained EVERY able bodied man for the militia. Many towns did not do that.

They're not using a martial weapon then. Not even most PCs can use martial weapons.

I just generated a town using a town generator, 1006 people, and guess how many could use martial weapons? 5. I can see it being argued you could extend that to 2 more given the professions of those 2. So 7. Biggest profession was commoner farmer who can use a club. Next most were commoner fishers. That town is burning to the dragon.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I disagree and did the research before posting. I'd say yours is very bad history. I was citing the range of numbers I found.

Feel free to cite sources for your pretty astonishing claims, I guess?

Or don’t, you’d need a pretty damn good bibliography of sources to convince me of most of your claims.

Like, what on Earth gives you the idea that most historical professional warriors didn’t survive long enough to be able bodied townsfolk during their lives?

Nah, I didn't mean that they don't do their part. I meant that it's often seen as "stay out of the Barbarian's way" (while they do their part), rather than "coordinate tactics with them". It's more an RP thing than a game tactics thing, and I didn't mean it strongly.

Ah okay, I just always think of the tank as one of the biggest team players, but I guess not everyone actually roleplays their barbarian that way.

 

[Maxperson]

They're not using a martial weapon then. Not even most PCs can use martial weapons.

I just generated a town using a town generator, 1006 people, and guess how many could use martial weapons? 5. I can see it being argued you could extend that to 2 more given the professions of those 2. So 7. Biggest profession was commoner farmer who can use a club. Next most were commoner fishers. That town is burning to the dragon.

Two things. First, NPCs aren't built like PCs. You could easily train them to use a single martial weapon and represent that in their stat block. Second, you don't even have to do that. Short Bows and Light Crossbows are sufficient for no disadvantage except for the most ancient of dragons who can breathe at 90 feet, and they can still shoot those at disadvantage.

 

[Horwath]

I like the 5e bounded accuracy. It feels more real. The concept of a town army going after a dragon wouldnt even be thinkable in 3e but can happen in 5e.

The only frustration with the boundedness is the narrow amount of bonuses available between best and worst. Example, it is difficult to quantify the different kinds of armor in any detail, or award bonuses for individual pieces of armor, or layering armors. But maybe with regard to armor, vague abstractions of Light Armor versus Heavy Armor, maybe with a Medium, are a better design approach anyway.

Overall, especially in the context of a d20, bounded accuracy works great.

Armor is bad in 5E as it was in previous editions.
there is an illusion of choice, but it all default to 2 or maybe 3 base armors from PHB and possibly adamantium/mithril/dragonhide version of them.

now you have Studded leather for light, maybe if your DM is generous you can get dragon/basilish/hydra hide as optional material.

halfplate for medium if you do not care about stealth or breastplate or mithril halfplate if you do care.

for heavy armor it's fullplate, maybe mithril or adamantium version if you can afford it.

rest is just waste of print space in PHB


might as well make generic AC armor and flavor it as you want it, with special properties from expensive/rare materials

Light armor:
13+dex(max 4), min str 8
14+dex(max 4), Stealth penalty, min str 10

medium armor:
15+dex(max 2), min str 10
16+dex(max 2), stealth penalty, min str 12

heavy armor:
17(max dex 0), min str 12
18(max dex 0), stealth penalty, min str 14
19(max dex 0), stealth penalty, move penalty -5ft, min str 16

 

[tetrasodium]

Armor is bad in 5E as it was in previous editions.
there is an illusion of choice, but it all default to 2 or maybe 3 base armors from PHB and possibly adamantium/mithril/dragonhide version of them.

now you have Studded leather for light, maybe if your DM is generous you can get dragon/basilish/hydra hide as optional material.

halfplate for medium if you do not care about stealth or breastplate or mithril halfplate if you do care.

for heavy armor it's fullplate, maybe mithril or adamantium version if you can afford it.

rest is just waste of print space in PHB


might as well make generic AC armor and flavor it as you want it, with special properties from expensive/rare materials

Light armor:
13+dex(max 4), min str 8
14+dex(max 4), Stealth penalty, min str 10

medium armor:
15+dex(max 2), min str 10
16+dex(max 2), stealth penalty, min str 12

heavy armor:
17(max dex 0), min str 12
18(max dex 0), stealth penalty, min str 14
19(max dex 0), stealth penalty, move penalty -5ft, min str 16

Id say that it's worse in 5e because it's been simplified to a single ac value and no longer has any of the secondary distinctionsblike aaf ACP or the harder to summarize 4e doodads. That leaves 5e armor both a thing of no real choice and a thing that is functionally identical across the options voluntold to different builds

 

[Horwath]

Id say that it's worse in 5e because it's been simplified to a single ac value and no longer has any of the secondary distinctionsblike aaf ACP or the harder to summarize 4e doodads. That leaves 5e armor both a thing of no real choice and a thing that is functionally identical across the options voluntold to different builds

3.5e had basically 2 armors in PHB

Chain shirt and fullplate(later replaced by heavyplate, Races of Stone)
and various mithril, adamantium, living iron or other material options.

 

[tetrasodium]

3.5e had basically 2 armors in PHB

Chain shirt and fullplate(later replaced by heavyplate, Races of Stone)
and various mithril, adamantium, living iron or other material options.

Different point was being made. Those extra values allowed for functional manipulation of those secondary values that provided distinction other than +N ac. I'm not in a place where I can crosscheck the various books but leafweave(-asf) nightscale (+max Dex) & nimbleness (+ACP) are a couple of the many options from back then that come to mind.

 

[Horwath]

Different point was being made. Those extra values allowed for functional manipulation of those secondary values that provided distinction other than +N ac. I'm not in a place where I can crosscheck the various books but leafweave(-asf) nightscale (+max Dex) & nimbleness (+ACP) are a couple of the many ways that come to mind.

yes, that is true. that is why I said various material options.
but as base options, it was only 2.