D&D (2024) Which subclasses “should” have been in 2024

[Maxperson]

I agree. If they are going to a Dancer, I'd rather see it either as its own class (as done by Taron Pounds) or a non-spellcasting rogue subclass.

As long as I can still play a faerie and be a tiny dancer.

 

[Maxperson]

Then the answer is to give martials the supernatural abilities to keep pace. Make fighters breathe fire, barbarians radiate electricity, monks fly and roguesc teleport in shadows. Magic is the best tool in D&D, adapt or be obsolete.

I would rather see supernatural versions of what they already do. Fighters can swing a sword and cut a foe that is 60 feet away. Barbarians can scream in rage and knock all enemies withing 10 feet prone. Once per long rest monks can move so quickly that they break dimensional barriers, teleporting per the spell except that it is self only. That sort of thing.

 

[steeldragons]

Swap Dungeoneer and Swashbuckler. For all that the Swashbuclker is flamboyant and roguish in personality, it's primarily about fighting. On the other side, Dungeoneering screams locks, traps, searching and treasure.

I have been back and forth on the "Fighter specialist class" vs. "Rogue specialist class" for my homebrew forever. Thank you for thinking as I do! Their primary shtick is their unique, acrobatic, flamboyant style of "fighting." It does make sense for it to be a Fighter sub-/specialist class.

And all the things you say about Dungeoneer is absolutely accurate. I have given them the lock picking, traps finding/thwarting, moving carefully kinda roguey things...but also Monster lore/finding their weaknesses/knowing how to defeat the weird dungeony things (like oozes, molds, aberrations, etc...) that every soldier/gladiator/mercenary fighter wouldn't (necessarily) know about, and legend/lore type of knowledge skill for hearing/knowing about artifacts and legendary treasures/locations... So, more of a "non-ranger" fighter kind of thing (rangers in my homebrew are a Rogue - skill and Dex. based- class). Want a good Str. High Con. (for good saves vs. the poisons/venoms/dangerous environs they spend time in). Good Int. (for the lore/knowledge checks).

So, I do see/think of the Dungeoneer as more of a fighter-combat specialist class, versus the rogue-skilll specialist class of the Ranger, while still having some roguish/"explorer" kind of set of skills.

 

[Maxperson]

And all the things you say about Dungeoneer is absolutely accurate. I have given them the lock picking, traps finding/thwarting, moving carefully kinda roguey things...but also Monster lore/finding their weaknesses/knowing how to defeat the weird dungeony things (like oozes, molds, aberrations, etc...) that every soldier/gladiator/mercenary fighter wouldn't (necessarily) know about, and legend/lore type of knowledge skill for hearing/knowing about artifacts and legendary treasures/locations... So, more of a "non-ranger" fighter kind of thing (rangers in my homebrew are a Rogue - skill and Dex. based- class). Want a good Str. High Con. (for good saves vs. the poisons/venoms/dangerous environs they spend time in). Good Int. (for the lore/knowledge checks).

Proficiency in con(for those poisons, etc.) and dex(for avoiding traps) saves?

 

[Not a Decepticon]

That one one of many incorrect things said, yes.

Then how different it was to play Martial as opposed to caster and in what ways? Can you honestly said there weren't martial abilities that amounted to doing the same a caster can do with a spell?

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Bards don't have good spells to complement melee, unlike every other full caster. I think there are full casters that can keep up with Fighter, but I don't think Swords Bard is one of those.

One of the main reasons is a Bard is going to be more MAD than a martial Wizard, Warlock or Cleric because they need a high Charisma to fuel their flourishes, while those other classes can focus more on their attack stat.

Bards will now be getting access to every other single complete casters' spell list through magical secrets.

 

[Remathilis]

I would rather see supernatural versions of what they already do. Fighters can swing a sword and cut a foe that is 60 feet away. Barbarians can scream in rage and knock all enemies withing 10 feet prone. Once per long rest monks can move so quickly that they break dimensional barriers, teleporting per the spell except that it is self only. That sort of thing.

Honestly, I'm fine with that too, as long as its explicitly designated as supernatural and there is some in-world justification for it. Both barbarian and monk have moved further towards this idea of a "supernatural warrior" without needing "spells" and I want to see this trend pushed to the next level. And for me, sacrificing the "badass normal" is more than acceptable to getting flying, fire breathing dragon-knights.

 

[Remathilis]

Bards will now be getting access to every other single complete casters' spell list through magical secrets.

At 10th level. Halfway through your adventuring career (optimistically, closer to the end by most campaign standards). And you can retrain 1 spell per level, so any spells below 5th level are swapped once per level. Meaning a dance bard who wants shield and haste (two staples of gish builds) have to be at least 12 level to get them. Compare to what a 12th level 2024 monk is doing, the dance bard is just a pale imitation.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

At 10th level. Halfway through your adventuring career (optimistically, closer to the end by most campaign standards). And you can retrain 1 spell per level, so any spells below 5th level are swapped once per level. Meaning a dance bard who wants shield and haste (two staples of gish builds) have to be at least 12 level to get them. Compare to what a 12th level 2024 monk is doing, the dance bard is just a pale imitation.

Pale imitation that still can outdo Monk with spells it already has, the post I was responding to was talking about outdoing Fighter with Swords Bard.

 

[Remathilis]

Pale imitation that still can outdo Monk with spells it already has, the post I was responding to was talking about outdoing Fighter with Swords Bard.

Having played a Swords bard up to 10th level, I think you HIGHLY over-inflate their capacities. My sword bard was solid, but the battlemaster was running rings around me.