D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[CreamCloud0]

"Keep?"

It's the first time I said it.

Sorry my mistake, mixed you up with Paul Farquhar, and Frogreaver who had also said we were somehow advocating for classless.

 

[FrogReaver]

Sorry my mistake, mixed you up with Paul Farquhar, and Frogreaver who had also said we were somehow advocating for classless.

Not quite. I said that the principles you were using to justify your proposed changes would just as easily justify classless.

The nuance is important.

 

[Minigiant]

Ok then change it on a Ranger to give them 2 more spell slots they can use on any spell.

It is not that hard to figure out and this argument is a strawman.

Then write it out.

If I do it, I'd have to steelman it, fail, and be accused of strawmanning anyway.

HM is not a cheap option. FF can be spammed like a Paladin's Smite. The Bonus Action mechanic really kills Hunter's Mark, especially at high level.

Every time I used Favored Foe on the last Ranger I played it was for one attack (much of the time after using Nature's Viel).

You only get Proficiency modifer uses of Favored For and it doesn't bounce on victim death.

That's not enough for a 6 encounter day. Not even a 4 encounter day.

 

[Minigiant]

I repeat

The community and the game designers both Dean that the 2024 version of fifth edition has to be backwards compatible to the 2014 version of 5th edition. Because Hunter's Mark is a spell used by many entities in 2014 and is iconic to the Ranger class in 2024, it has to remain a spell and the iconic to the Ranger class.

Now the core issue with the Ranger in 2014 was that at low levels. In order to fix this, Wizards of the Coast would have to invent a new feature for Rangers that gives them additional spell slots and additional spells prepared.

There's no way to actually do that in 2024 outside of touching forbidden iconic class features without either creating a new class feature creating new spells or adjusting the Ranger chart.

The 2024 Ranger is bland and boring because Wizards of the coast put making the Ranger serviceable more important than matching the flavor or forcing groups to use some sort of exploration mechanic. There is no impetus to boost the flavor of rangers compared to other classes

 

[mellored]

There is no impetus to boost the flavor of rangers compared to other classes

There is no agreement on what that flavor is.

 

[ECMO3]

I have no problem playing a Barbarian as a nature warrior if I want raging to be a part of that character. I have no problem playing a Druid either if I want to be a nature warrior who leans more heavily on spells. But ranger is a stealthy nature warrior who tracks people and monsters, and the class fits well for that.

Why do YOU get to decide what a Ranger is? I think a Fighter is the stealthy nature warrior who tracks people and monsters and it fits a lot better than a Ranger does if you don't want spells. Rogue (esp Rogue Scout) would work for some themes too, but fighter works for all of them.

But simply saying martial with spells and expertise just sends me down the road of a rogue or a bard, but that's apparently the wrong answer too, so I don't know.

Let me help you- the right answer is Ranger.

Fighter or Barbarian is what you want for a stealthy nature warrior who is not a spell user.

 

[ECMO3]

Then write it out.

I did, go back and check earlier posts.

 

[ECMO3]

Then write it out.

I wrote it out several posts above. Go up and look at it.

You only get Proficiency modifer uses of Favored For and it doesn't bounce on victim death.

You only use it for 1 attack you don't need it to bounce, if you get a second attack out of it great, but it is really just extra damage on one attack:

Attack -hit- Favored foe
Extra Attack -hit-drop concentration-favored foe kill that guy-drop concentration again
Bonus: TWF attack - hit-favored foe.

That is 3 uses in a round against 2 different enemies and it is probably the only time you will use it all day. At high level it is more damage than HM too.

If the fight is hard enough you need more than one attack you are going to use a better concentration spell (and a better spell than Hunter's Mark too).

That's not enough for a 6 encounter day. Not even a 4 encounter day.

It is WAY, WAY, WAY more than enough for a 7 encounter day. I have played multiple Rangers to level 20 and I don't think I ever ran out of Favored Foe past level 5. Not once. I did on occasion run out of spell slots, but I did not do that often either.

If you insist on attacking every turn and not casting other spells you might run out of FF, but most of the time at level I am casting spells or supporting concentration on something better (like Spike Growth, Web, Summon Fey, CWB or Conjure animals) when I am attacking with a weapon and using a spell to support that attack, I am often using a different and better concentration spell (like Ensnaring Strike or Zephyr Strike or Guardian of Nature).

Favored Foe is for when you don't need any of that. When that happens you spam it like Paladin Smites because you are not concentrating and you want to spend it when you get the chance.

Take a 13th level Fey Wanderer for example on a 7 encounter day:

1. I can cast Summon Fey 4 times a day at 3rd level and I am probably doubling some of those up - so lets say that is covering 3 fights total

2. I usually have Cause Fear on a free cast from Shadow Touched and probably cast it using a 2nd level slot once a day as well. Let's assume I lose concentration so we will call that only 1 fight for two castings (one free one 2nd level) since I have to recast it - that is 4 fights total

3. I have two more 2nd level slots. Let's say that is one fight I cast silence and one fight I cast spike growth - that is 6 fights total

So now I have 1 more fight left, I was using concentration on something else for all 6 other fights. I still have four 1st level slots left, a 4th level slot, a free cast of Speak With Animals, Beast Sense, Speak With Plants, Locate Creature, Invisibility, and four uses of favored foe.

That is WAY, WAY, WAY more resources than I can use up in one fight and among those resources the 1st level slots and probably the Invisibility are all better uses of your concentration than Favored Foe (or Hunter's Mark) would be.

 

[Xeviat]

My very simple Ranger patch:

• Deft Explorer adds Proficiency in Survival, or Expertise in Survival if you already were proficient; all rangers should have Survival.
• Move Relentless Hunter to 5th level. Replace it's text with: "When you cast Hunter's Mark, you can choose to remove it's Concentration requirement. If you do, it lasts for the full duration on the target, and you cannot reapply it elsewhere when the target dies. Additionally, you can cast Hunter's Mark on a creature with unlimited range as part of the Attack action against it or as part of the Search or Study actions while studying it or it's tracks."
• Move Precise Hunter to 13th level (I don't think it's a problem for rangers to effectively have advantage on all their attacks; rogues functionally do too with the way Steady Aim and Two-Weapon Fighting work).
• Change Foe Slayer to: "When you attack a creature you have cast Hunter's Mark upon with advantage, your attack is a critical hit if both d20s would be a hit." (This ends up giving a damage bonus comparable to the fighter's extra attack or the barbarian or monk's +4 ability bonus).

 

[Ashrym]

OK, should have said "stun" DC as you will probably be doing it every round at level 20. so it's like a spell.
and STR can be iconic to rangers as rangers get medium armor proficiency and that means that they can optimize STR over DEX.
Also it would be nice to have option to have heavy armor+ignoring stealth penalty in heavy armor+keeping roving bonus. Maybe as exchange for favored enemy or as a subclass.

The stun or other monk abilities are not as versatile at the ranger spells.