D&D (2024) Treantmonk's Ranger DPS video:

[ECMO3]

wow, a 3rd level slot for what?
13-14 damage?

Well 4d8 is 18. Moreover though I would use it on a crit for 8d8.

 

[ECMO3]

I wonder would the new ranger be better off going Wisdom first and going for control effects. Ensnaring Strike, Entangle, Spike growth and so on.
May be go for topple weapons, Topple with ensnaring strike will keep a target prone the next round if both land. Perhaps add in Druidic Warrior for the use of shillelagh on the turns where there is a bonus action free.

The old Ranger was better with Wisdom. The 2024 Ranger I am playing right now is Wisdom first.

It does depend on subclass though. Fey Wanderer definititely benefits from Wisdom over dex.

Topple and Ensnaring Strike are not really complimentary. Ensnaring strike causes restrained. Restrained is worse than prone and does not have the benefit of causing disadvantage on ranged attacks. If ensnaring strikes lands I think you generally don't want the bad guy prone.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The old Ranger was better with Wisdom. The 2024 Ranger I am playing right now is Wisdom first.

It does depend on subclass though. Fey Wanderer definititely benefits from Wisdom over dex.

Topple and Ensnaring Strike are not really complimentary. Ensnaring strike causes restrained. Restrained is worse than prone and does not have the benefit of causing disadvantage on ranged attacks. If ensnaring strikes lands I think you generally don't want the bad guy prone.

I am certainly thinking about a ranger build prioritising Wisdom.

 

[Zardnaar]

You're still punishing yourself if you go wisdom first. Unless you're using Shillelagh or have another way to key off wisdom.

 

[ECMO3]

You're still punishing yourself if you go wisdom first. Unless you're using Shillelagh or have another way to key off wisdom.

I disagree with this. If you are using spells, boosting your spell save is at least as valuable as a boost to your attack rolls and damage, with or without Shillelagh. Also, the feats that boost Wisdom are generally better than the Feats that boost Dexterity (Fey Touched, Shadow Touched and Warcaster in specific).

On a Fey Wanderer, Wisdom is especially important because Otherworldly Glamour, Beguiling Twist and Summon [Mirthful] Fey all use Wisdom. A Fey Wanderer really wants to maximize Wisdom for the save on Beguiling Twist which you should be using all the time.

Under 2014 rules a Fey Wanderer with a 20 Wisdom and Fey Reinforcements was one of the best control casters in the game (probably the best in tier 3 for a single encounter). The 2024 reliance on Hunter's Mark weakens this a bit, but it is still going to be a very powerful combo that works best with a high Wisdom.

 

[Zardnaar]

I disagree with this. If you are using spells, boosting your spell save is at least as valuable as a boost to your attack rolls and damage, with or without Shillelagh. Also, the feats that boost Wisdom are generally better than the Feats that boost Dexterity (Fey Touched, Shadow Touched and Warcaster in specific).

On a Fey Wanderer, Wisdom is especially important because Otherworldly Glamour, Beguiling Twist and Summon [Mirthful] Fey all use Wisdom. A Fey Wanderer really wants to maximize Wisdom to maximize the save on Beguiling Twist to get the most mileage out of the subclass.

Under 2014 rules a Fey Wanderer with a 20 Wisdom and Fey Reinforcements was one of the best control casters in the game. The 2024 reliance on Hunter's Mark weakens this a bit, but it is still going to be a very powerful combo.

Not sure how good that is. Other problem is opportunity cost. How does a build like that compare to a warlock or warlock1/Valor bard.

You're still a half caster which means limited spell slots for most of your career.

 

[ECMO3]

Not sure how good that is. Other problem is opportunity cost. How does a build like that compare to a warlock or warlock1/Valor bard.

You're still a half caster which means limited spell slots for most of your career.

Beguiling Twist and Fey Reinforcements combo is awesome. REALLY REALLY awesome. Beguiling Twist is a spell slot multiplier. While something like Cause Fear or Wrathful Smite works for a bit until someone makes a save, with Beguiling Twist it continues to work after the target(s) save. You essentially get more than one use out of one casting.

Frightened is extremely powerful in combat because of how it restricts movement. Charmed is less so, but it is still excellent at control when combined with frightened or grappling charmed enemies.

Since your concentration is free with Summon Fey you add in Cause Fear as a concentration spell through Shadow touched (or in the 2024 rules optionally Wrathful Smite). Beguiling Twist uses no slots and the Fey you summon use no more slots to charm people after you summon them and they do this every single turn. If a target makes the save against the Fey Charm it triggers another Frightened effect which is more or less a concentration-free, spell slot free Cause Fear ... and it triggers again in later rounds when they save against that new effect you created.

It won't do as much damage as most martials or a Warlock/Valor Bard, but that is not what it is designed for. It is a top flight controller. Level 11-14 it will beat a Wizard as controllers go as long as the enemies can be frightened or charmed. Above that and below that it is competitive (as long as you have Cause Fear from a feat). You are putting another Fey on the battlefield every round and every round each of those is attacking and charming someone and when an enemy saves against that you are twisting it into an even more powerful frightened effect that lasts a minute. In 2024 I suspect it will also outrun almost everything in action economy in tough fights since this is one of the only ways left to summon multiple allies.

Attacking is a fallback/backup option, not the main option in a difficult fight and when you need to do that you have Hunters Mark and feat spells and your 1st and second level spells to augment so you are ok at it. You aren't winning any awards for weapon attack damage, but with extra attack, dreadful strikes, Favored Enemy and in 2024 probably Wrathful Smite, so you are outdamaging most of the casters using Cantrips or low level damaging spells by quite a bit, even if you are using Strength or Dexterity.

As icing on the cake you have the best Charisma skills in the party, the only thing that will be better than you is a Bard and only if they use expertise on their Charisma skills and you didn't.

In the 2014 rules this was my favorite Ranger to play and in my opinion easily the most powerful Ranger build across all three phases.

I have only played this to level 5 in the 2024 rules, so I can't say I have experience at it with the new rules at higher levels. While the new rules do not cater to caster Rangers as much as they did, I still think most of the elements are there to make this very effective.

 

[Zardnaar]

Beguiling Twist and Fey Reinforcements combo is awesome. REALLY REALLY awesome. Beguiling Twist is a spell slot multiplier. While something like Cause Fear or Wrathful Smite works for a bit until someone makes a save, with Beguiling Twist it continues to work after the target(s) save. You essentially get more than one use out of one casting.

Frightened is extremely powerful in combat because of how it restricts movement. Charmed is less so, but it is still excellent at control when combined with frightened or grappling charmed enemies.

Since your concentration is free with Summon Fey you add in Cause Fear as a concentration spell through Shadow touched (or in the 2024 rules optionally Wrathful Smite). Beguiling Twist uses no slots and the Fey you summon use no more slots to charm people after you summon them and they do this every single turn. If a target makes the save against the Fey Charm it triggers another Frightened effect which is more or less a concentration-free, spell slot free Cause Fear ... and it triggers again in later rounds when they save against that.

It won't do as much damage as most martials or a Warlock/Valor Bard, but that is not what it is designed for. It is a top flight controller. Level 11-14 it will compete with a Wizard as controllers go as long as the enemies can be frightened or charmed. You are putting another Fey on the battlefield every round and every round each of those is attacking and charming someone and when an enemy saves against that you are twisting it into an even more powerful frightened effect that lasts a minute. In 2024 it will also outrun almost everything in action economy since this is one of the only ways left to summon multiple allies.

Attacking is a fallback/backup option, not the main option in a difficult fight and when you need to do that you have Hunters Mark and feat spells and your 1st and second level spells to augment so you are ok at it. You aren't winning any awards for attack damage, but you have extra attack, dreadful strikes, Hunter's Mark and in 2024 probably wrathful smite, so you are outdamaging most of the casters using Cantrips or low level damaging spells by quite a bit.

As icing on the cake you have the best Charisma skills in the party too, the only thing that will better you is a Bard with expertise.

In the 2014 rules this was my favorite Ranger to play and in my opinion easily the most powerful Ranger build across all three phases.

I have only played this to level 5 in the 2024 rules, so I can't say I have experience at it with the new rules. While the new rules do not cater to caster Rangers as much as they did, I still think most of the elements are there to make this very effective.

Level 11-14 is a long time to wait just saying.

 

[ECMO3]

Level 11-14 is a long tine to wait just saying.

But it is really good before that as well and before level 11 somthing like a Valor Bard/Warlock is not winning any awards for weapon damage either.

If you are going Warlock I am assuming you are going Pact of Blade so you can be everything on Charisma? Now you are level 7 or 8 before you get extra attack and level 9 or 10 before you max Charisma and you are limited to one melee weapon on your Charisma even after you do that (and that Charisma weapon is used without any weapon mastery).

The single-class Ranger is getting extra attack at level 5, and she has masteries so she is probably making 3 attacks per round as an action when that happens. When you consider Masteries, Dreadful Strikes and Favored Enemy that is beating a Valor Bard/Warlock all the way through level 10 I think, even with a 16 attack stat.

 

[Zardnaar]

But it is really good before that as well and before before level 11 somthing like a Valor Bard/Warlock is not winning any awards for weapon damage either.

If you are going Warlock I am assuming you are going Pact of Chain so you can be everything on Charisma? Now you are level 7 or 8 before you get extra attack and level 9 or 10 before you max Charisma and you are limited to one melee weapon on your Charisma even after you do that (and that Charisma weapon is used without any weapon mastery).

The single-class Ranger is getting extra attack at level 5, and she has masteries so she is probably making 3 attacks per round as an action when that happens. When you consider Masteries, Dreadful Strikes and Favored Enemy that is beating a Valor Bard/Warlock all the way through level 10 I think, even with a 16 attack stat.

What you have done is made me think about that subclass more. There's sone potential there I think. Wisdom secondary stat perhaps. Valor bards still a primary caster and can use truestrike and fount of moonlight before level 10. See below however.

Just watched Treantmonk's new video. He hasn't built a great Ranger. I think hunter or gloomstalker makes a bit more sense for your striker. Beasts are cute but bonus action economy and outside a white room.

The ranger subclasses I think push you towards certain playstyles. Eg beastmaster is melee, gloomstalker and hunter probably ranged, and I think EC3MO has something interesting going on with the Fey Wanderer. A druidic cantrip eg Shillelagh splashing a fighter level could work for wisdom based Fey Wanderer or wisdom secondary perhaps.

Gloomstalker kinda stinks now derp.