D&D (2024) DMG 5.5 - the return of bespoke magical items?

[EzekielRaiden]

They spend about a month at Lothlorien... Yeah, LOTR is NOT fast-paced scene to scene. It has big gaps of time between some events.

Is a month 50 days?

 

[Ancalagon]

Whatever raw materials are necessary for the Shield spell are about to see a spike in demand!

As written in the DMG, crafted items are still 100% in control of the DM, because it states that the DM determines whether appropriate raw materials are available for purchase.

(according to the previews I saw, I don't personally have the book yet)

And see, that's the thing.

A shield that cast shield is a great uncommon defensive item. And it's not some kind of 4d-chess level idea, any clever 12 year old could come up with that combo.

So if I, as the DM, am concerned about an excess of defensive items, and whenever my players try to build one I go "nope, can't find the magical doo dad you need". And this keeps happening - I say no at level 3, at level 5, at level 7...

Is this an uncommon item? If it is never available, never craftable, it's rather rare... very rare... even?

The items are only rated based on their "numerical" power - can it cast a level 1 spell? Yes? Then it's uncommon. They aren't rated on their real power. Is a staff that allows you to cast sleep with a DC 13 as good, as powerful as a shield that cast shield? Hell no!

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Anduril did get reforged while the main characters were resting at Rivendell.

Fair. Who paid the GP for it? Kind of a facetious question, but it really does feel like people are reaching as far as they possibly can to suggest that adventuring parties usually have MASSIVE time gaps where absolutely-gorram-nothing happens, and that's just...not true in my experience. It's not true of most fiction I've read.

So: one actual, we-are-adventuring time gap that forges a cool sword.

Did this ever happen again at any point in the trilogy? Because the specific argument that was made earlier (again, when I was under the mistaken assumption that it needed to be consecutive days) was that it was effectively impossible for the DM to ever create a situation where the players couldn't get that done. Which is, under that mistaken assumption of consecutive days, genuinely a ridiculous notion.

And it's not like I hid this. I'd said it that way from the beginning.

 

[Ancalagon]

I can't tell if your issue is that the rare items will be too rare, or the uncommon items too common... but yeah, as soon as my players got a Ring of Spell Storing, they'd fill it with Shield spells. Is this an issue with the items, or with the spells? Hard to say... well, I'd say it's an issue with some spells being way more relevant than they should be at later levels, while others become pointless.. but yeah, I can hardly fault the items that hold them.

Are those items Attunement? In tiers 3+ my players are always griping about limited slots, I don't know how much they'd want to save one for a wand/staff that they'll need in-hand (unlike a ring) to use for shield, hex, etc.

Some (not all) spells can be put in weapons or armor/shield. It's very good for martials.

Attunement will definitely limit these items, and I anticipate high level characters will leave them behind. But at tier 1 and 2? they are great

 

[EzekielRaiden]

And see, that's the thing.

A shield that cast shield is a great uncommon defensive item. And it's not some kind of 4d-chess level idea, any clever 12 year old could come up with that combo.

So if I, as the DM, am concerned about an excess of defensive items, and whenever my players try to build one I go "nope, can't find the magical doo dad you need". And this keeps happening - I say no at level 3, at level 5, at level 7...

Is this an uncommon item? If it is never available, never craftable, it's rather rare... very rare... even?

The items are only rated based on their "numerical" power - can it cast a level 1 spell? Yes? Then it's uncommon. They aren't rated on their real power. Is a staff that allows you to cast sleep with a DC 13 as good, as powerful as a shield that cast shield? Hell no!

That's a pretty long way of saying, "Spells are really badly balanced."

 

[Demetrios1453]

Okay. Then let me rephrase the original question.

Once there actually is the titular Fellowship of the Ring, do they have the time to stop for 50 days to make a magic item?

I hope you didn't hurt your back moving those goalposts!

Because the answer is no, although they came close in Lothlorien. But the answer is only no since you changed the parameters once people pointed out that it could indeed have been done with your original question.

Beyond that, I've both played in and ran campaigns that did have considerable downtime periods in which this can be done. With these rules, as a DM, I'd actually be more likely to do so, so my players could have some fun making/ordering items if they should want. I wouldn't do it like every level, but at least a few times during a campaign so as to give players the option.

 

[pemerton]

Fair. Who paid the GP for it? Kind of a facetious question, but it really does feel like people are reaching as far as they possibly can to suggest that adventuring parties usually have MASSIVE time gaps where absolutely-gorram-nothing happens, and that's just...not true in my experience. It's not true of most fiction I've read.

I've done FRPGing where relatively little time passed in the game - eg my 4e D&D game. (Though this still featured a bit of magic item creation, because in 4e that is quite quick.)

I've also done FRPGing where plenty of time passes - eg during town phases in my Torchbearer 2e game. One of the PCs has Enchanter skill, and would certainly be keen to make items! (At the moment the bonus is relatively low, and so the player has chosen only to brew the odd elixir in camp.)

To me, a time-and-money cost, in the context of a game (5e D&D) that has no rules that turn time or money into a resource outside of GM fiat (about how in-game time passes, and how much money the PCs find), is merely colour. Any rationing of the creation of these items is going to have to be imposed by the GM. It is not going to emerge organically from that sort of "cost".

 

[Ancalagon]

Fair. Who paid the GP for it? Kind of a facetious question, but it really does feel like people are reaching as far as they possibly can to suggest that adventuring parties usually have MASSIVE time gaps where absolutely-gorram-nothing happens, and that's just...not true in my experience. It's not true of most fiction I've read.

So: one actual, we-are-adventuring time gap that forges a cool sword.

Did this ever happen again at any point in the trilogy? Because the specific argument that was made earlier (again, when I was under the mistaken assumption that it needed to be consecutive days) was that it was effectively impossible for the DM to ever create a situation where the players couldn't get that done. Which is, under that mistaken assumption of consecutive days, genuinely a ridiculous notion.

And it's not like I hid this. I'd said it that way from the beginning.

I do agree with you that massive gaps seem... unlikely. Maybe between "arcs" of the campaign?

However, weekly breaks? Xanatar downtime rules, the bastion rules, they all seem to suggest that an occasional week long break is not that ludicrious, and I agree. For some campaign, a 1 week break between adventures (not campaign), or maybe between levels, seems quite plausible.

This is why to me there is a "barrier" between the common-uncommon items and the rarer ones.

I'll also note that some have claimed you can work on this while on short rests, or maybe while you're on watch etc, in other words it doesn't have to be continuous work. I"m not sure how I feel about that - surely you need a proper workshop?

 

[pemerton]

That's a pretty long way of saying, "Spells are really badly balanced."

But this is well-known, isn't it. Spells that grant bonuses to hit or to AC remain relevant at all levels, because the scale remains the same. Whereas spells that inflict X dice of damage do not remain relevant at all levels, as the scale for meaningful hp damage changes.

The only version of D&D to have really tackled this issue is 4e D&D.

 

[Ancalagon]

Or have a game with strict timelines. Either way is a bit cheeesey but will limit items. Of course if items are easy for playerz to craft or buy they are for villains as well.

See that's the thing. I think it's great that some campaign have strict timelines. I don't think every campaign should have those. The DM should be free to determine the pacing!