Stoutstien
lunk
I don't think the armorer features allow a work around for the attunement limit unlike a wand sheath. Saying that. 6-7 is already a large leg up
D&D 5E Does the Artificer Suck?
Cap'n Kobold
Hero
So at 6th level they can swap out their enhanced weapon infusion for the radiant option. The power of blinding your opponent generally improves with the power of the opponents you face, so they may or may not want to swap back to enhanced weapon at level 10 for the +2 bonus.
Note also that there are quite a few weapon and armour infusions that offer benefits useful at all levels.
I think that all of those items are going to be useful, particularly on a situational basis when you get a pool of potential ones available for the next day, and get to swap one every level.
These are not like finding the item as treasure, whereupon you have that item all the time and get to use it when the right situation comes up.
An infusion replicating a Hat of Disguise is not just like having a Hat of Disguise for example. Its like having a Hat of Disguise that you can swap for Winged Boots or a Necklace of Adaptation overnight to fit with whatever your plans are for that day, and swap for anything else on that list when you level. The more situational the item, the more powerful the ability to produce it when required is compared to simply having the item.
These are class abilities. They are in addition, not instead of, whatever the party actually finds on adventures.
I think that being able to set their Int or Str to 19 is probably going to be useful to several members of most parties. I do not believe those items were never intended to be for characters that are based around those abilities.
If you're expecting that an artificer should be able to provide an item that removes the need for a character to invest in their primary ability score at low levels, then that strikes me as quite frankly, unrealistic.
Just to be clear, are you claiming that wotc's HC adventures have enough magic weapons that any character will have a magical version of their preferred weapon fairly soon after 5th level? Is this because they have so many that the characters can pick and choose, or because the DM is instructed to match a found weapon to the optimal chaoice for the characters?
It strikes me that even if, as you say, any wotc adventure is going to provide an enchanted hand crossbow for the fighter, they might still prefer to use one with the repeating shot infusion on it until the adventure provides the +2 hand crossbow.
It is exactly accomplishing that, unless every single weapon-using member of the party gets a magical version of their build's optimal weapon between one level and the next, and the party already have more than they can use of every other infusion that the artificer knows.
Remember that the artificer knows twice as many infusions as they actually have active, nd they can swap those around on a long rest.
Its more like wizard spells: They can daily change them in and out between a limited pool, and they can adjust that pool every level.
Really? You think that blinding an opponent or blasting them back, a thrown weapon returning to your hand, or ignoring half cover with your spell attacks as well as a +1 bonus is only as good as a +1 bonus?
You think that automatically passing a concentration check 4 times a day, or having an extra 3rd level spell slot, or being resistant to an element is of no use to a character once some members of their party have obtained +1 items?
And I think that you're pretty out of order to attempt to claim that I have ever said +1 stuff qualified as monty haul. I would suggest you read the post that was a reply to and then decide whether to try to justify your claim, or simply apologise.
So, I'm currently playing a gnomish battlesmith. Level 8. I haven't really dug in to optimizing, but I have made what I think have been reasonable choices.
We have myself, an elven Warlock (Caretaker, which is a 3rd party thing), and an air Genasi Barbarian who just picked up a level of Paladin.
My basic attack shtick is an infused crossbow - so at lvl 8 I am doing two attacks, of +9 to hit, 1d8+6 damage, plus my steel defender, which is +8 to hit, d8+3 damage.
Our Warlock's basic is, of course, Eldritch Blast, two shots of +8 to hit, d10+4 damage
The Barbarian's basic is two sword attacks, +8 to hit, d8+7 damage.
So, assuming an easy target, on an average round I'm doing 28.5 damage, the Warlock 19, and the Barbarian 23. Both of the others have more stops to pull out to do more damage than I do, but no, I do not suck in combat.
We have myself, an elven Warlock (Caretaker, which is a 3rd party thing), and an air Genasi Barbarian who just picked up a level of Paladin.
My basic attack shtick is an infused crossbow - so at lvl 8 I am doing two attacks, of +9 to hit, 1d8+6 damage, plus my steel defender, which is +8 to hit, d8+3 damage.
Our Warlock's basic is, of course, Eldritch Blast, two shots of +8 to hit, d10+4 damage
The Barbarian's basic is two sword attacks, +8 to hit, d8+7 damage.
So, assuming an easy target, on an average round I'm doing 28.5 damage, the Warlock 19, and the Barbarian 23. Both of the others have more stops to pull out to do more damage than I do, but no, I do not suck in combat.
GlassJaw
Hero
Well one person thinks they suck and another bans them because they are OP.
Sounds like they are just right.
G
Guest User
Guest
tetra...I think you are focusing on singular aspects of the artificer class, without considering, holistically, the Impact of all the class' features en toto.
The Alchemist I referenced earlier, was in a Waterdeep campaign. The group owned a tavern and had a good relationship with the staff at the tavern.
At 11th level, the Alchemist could create 4 Boots of Elvenkind, and pay friendly commoners to cast Invisibility through their Spell Storing Item to ensure that the entire party of 8 was Invisible.
4 Heavy Armor wearing Paladins, taking point with normal Steath Checks to be heard, plus being Invisible, leads to some rather nice Surprise Alpha strikes.
Great for interrupting clandestine meetings in Undermountain or the City of the Dead.
No PC had to use any spell slots, nor their Concentration on this.
Items like Lanterns of Revealing, and 2nd level spells are still valuable assets in Tier 4 play.
This is a bit presumptuous on my part, I mean no offense, but your criticism seems more from a 3e perspective and less from how 5e play happens. Every table, runs differently, but an Artificer doesn't 'read on the page' as being as effective as it can be in play.
I will say this, it takes a player that likes to fiddle, and be creative to get the most juice out of the Artificer class. An Artificer in the hands of a player, that doesn't like to take advantage of "swapping load outs" upon a Long Rest or Level Up is going to lead to an underwhelming experience, for everyone.
They absolutely should, however there are two problems
- Wotc created a design outline for crafting items but never quite finished it choosing instead to largely end it with ask your gm to finish it & largely not even including examples going back to half or a quarter of ask your gm is still ask your gm
- At no point has wotc ever put out anything resembling a wealth or downtime by level chart (not even a UA rough draft) to give an artificer who feels lacking similar to how a warlock or monk can point to 6-8 encounters with 2 short rests per long rest as a yardstick if they are feeling underdone by a particular GM's style
@Thunderous Mojo I don't agree with that assessment about being too narrowly focused. The replicate lists being loaded with largely inappropriately held back filler would be a nonissue if it were paired with a large number of infused items, the small pool of allowed unfused items would be fine if paired with a selection of powerful items that make the party miss having a supporting artificer when there isn't one . Instead they have the worst of both. An 8th level barbarian not aiming for a paladin aura with a longsword instead wielding a greatsword & powerattack+rage is going to be dealing [2d6+str+rage+powerattack]*2 or 25 average. Once you start dropping things like powerattack & a heavy weapon you might as well be dropping the artificer's heavy crossbow for a light/hand crossbow or effect cantrip like ray of frost/frostbite that deals d8 & d6 damage for the same reason the barbarian is using a d8 weapon or add in a strength rogue with a dagger fr a good spread ofapples & oranges data points. As a whole too many parts of artificer are missing a completed subsystem/guideline needed for them to measure up against or almost good but held back by something keeping them from being good lest they be the strong point
Yes every table runs differently, for example Alice might allow players to buy +1 weapons of their choice as they are simply uncommon using the dmg135/xge126 costs while bob might stick to whatever module he's running & Cheryl writes everything herself. In alice's game the infusions are going to be severely underpowered & only get moreso as players buy rare & higher stuff. In Bob's game it depends on what module he's running & may or may not be useful. In Cheryl's game the artificer has the same "it depends" & could be in the same boat as one table or even the good/bad at both Alice & Bob's table but neither her nor the artificer in question have a yardstick for what wotc intended it to be measured against when they designed the class. Despite some folks pointing at the radiant weapon infusion as a solution to Alice's choice to allow players to buy +1 gear, the artificer is still deeply hamstrung by being unable to make more than one while many other infusions are rendered pointless & the replicate magic item lists are themselves not really much of a meaningfully alternate path for the artificer to hang a hat on saying "This is how I'm awesome." even if it were a path they wanted to somehow specialize in
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Yeah, but pretty much most later stuff I've banned when I am DM.
On a personal note, I find the class concept silly as well, but that is just IMO. shrug
Flamestrike
Legend
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Can you detail what you find OP about them? With the original poster saying they are underpowered and you saying they are overpowered, I'd like to compare the list.
Flamestrike
Legend
Similar Threads
