D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

Stormonu · Apr 10, 2024

Oofta said:
If you're playing a sailor in the desert, it's likely because of party choice to go to the desert. Beyond that you likely have better knowledge of certain aspects related to sailing and shipping, you just don't get any background feature benefits.

Tell Shipwreck (from GI Joe) that he can't use his Sailor background in the desert.

Or, on a more D&D example, any Silt Rider in Dark Sun.

Lanefan · Apr 10, 2024

soviet said:
Sure but what I'm saying is that's how the ability is resolved. It's like automatically getting a success on the metaphorical dice roll. But that doesn't mean you don't still have to earn that metaphorical dice roll in your description and roleplaying. You wouldn't let players just say 'I diplomacy the guard, oh look natural 20', right? You'd want them to describe or act out how they approach the guard, what they're trying to achieve, what they offer them, etc. Then you'd roll the dice.

Except with these backgrounds (as quoted) the player-facing rules flat-out say this roleplay piece isn't necessary because the result is automatic.

If you change "can" to "may" or "might" in the background write-ups then what you say here would hold true.

Not a Decepticon · Apr 10, 2024

Oofta said:
I quoted the text from the basic rules. It's quite clear (bold added).

Feature: Rustic Hospitality
Since you come from the ranks of the common folk, you fit in among them with ease. You can find a place to hide, rest, or recuperate among other commoners, unless you have shown yourself to be a danger to them. They will shield you from the law or anyone else searching for you, though they will not risk their lives for you.

How is that not an automatic feature that you do not have to expend any effort on getting if you follow the rule as written?

Something similar with the noble background

Feature: Position of Privilege
Thanks to your noble birth, people are inclined to think the best of you. You are welcome in high society, and people assume you have the right to be wherever you are. The common folk make every effort to accommodate you and avoid your displeasure, and other people of high birth treat you as a member of the same social sphere. You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to.

One that I think is better worded

Feature: Researcher
When you attempt to learn or recall a piece of lore, if you do not know that information, you often know where and from whom you can obtain it. Usually, this information comes from a library, scriptorium, university, or a sage or other learned person or creature. Your DM might rule that the knowledge you seek is secreted away in an almost inaccessible place, or that it simply cannot be found. Unearthing the deepest secrets of the multiverse can require an adventure or even a whole campaign.

The researcher makes it clear - you're more likely than many others to know how to find information, but it's clearly stated that it's not automatic. It provides possible hooks for the DM, in that you may know that the information you seek exists but may not be easy to find.

I wouldn't have a problem with the background features if they were written like the Researcher, but they aren't. Change "You can find a place..." to something like "You can frequently connect with commoners allowing you to find a place..." and we're good to go. But there are no conditionals to the Position of Privilege for the noble background. Doesn't matter if the noble you want an audience with is a lifelong enemy of your house sworn on vengeance to the last of the bloodline you can always get an audience if you need to if you follow the rules as written.

Are you really arguing about the part of the mechanics that affects entierly irrelevant thing and the players infamously never use?

Oofta said:
If you're playing a sailor in the desert, it's likely because of party choice to go to the desert. Beyond that you likely have better knowledge of certain aspects related to sailing and shipping, you just don't get any background feature benefits.

That seems to be an issue of players picking characters unfir to the gampaign.

soviet · Apr 10, 2024

Lanefan said:
Except with these backgrounds (as quoted) the player-facing rules flat-out say this roleplay piece isn't necessary because the result is automatic.

They do not say this.

tetrasodium · Apr 10, 2024

soviet said:
They do not say this.

once again you have failed to quote any rules supporting this claim

soviet · Apr 10, 2024

tetrasodium said:
once again you have failed to quote any rules supporting this claim

The other poster claimed the rules said something, without providing evidence.

What do you suggest I do to prove the negative? Copy paste the entire rulebook?

tetrasodium · Apr 10, 2024

soviet said:
The other poster claimed the rules said something, without providing evidence.

What do you suggest I do to prove the negative? Copy paste the entire rulebook?

The only reason that you would need to "prove a negative" rather than explain why you are right is if you are completely & totally incorrect in your efforts to claim something totally unsupported by the rules.

You quoted someone quoting the background feature in 1587 because they quoted the text of it in 1586, they were also quoted in 1476 1525 and many other posts. How many times do you need someone to quote and explain problems with the features for you before you stop twisting and turning to avoid supporting your claims about what they very much do not support and start doing so?

Oofta · Apr 10, 2024

Stormonu said:
Tell Shipwreck (from GI Joe) that he can't use his Sailor background in the desert.
View attachment 357143

Or, on a more D&D example, any Silt Rider in Dark Sun.

I was thinking a little more practical like knowing all sorts of knots and the logistics and cost/benefit analysis of what goods to trade. But I do have to applaud references to GI Joe because knowing is half the battle.

Oofta · Apr 10, 2024

Not a Decepticon said:
Are you really arguing about the part of the mechanics that affects entierly irrelevant thing and the players infamously never use?

It's early in the morning and I've only had about a third of my morning tea, but I have no idea what you're asking.

Not a Decepticon said:
That seems to be an issue of players picking characters unfir to the gampaign.

Maybe for some parts of the campaign it was useful or there may be some related skills that would be useful. My point is it's not up to the DM to ensure that background features are always going to be useful, especially in open ended games like I run when they could just as easily chosen to start sailing the seven seas. I provide potential plot hooks, the group decides which one to pursue.

Oofta · Apr 10, 2024

soviet said:
They do not say this.

You keep insisting this, we keep pointing out the clear text. It clearly states for the noble background feat that " You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to." Does securing an audience require anything? Any effort at all on part of the player? It will happen if the player expresses a desire and the DM follows the literal text of the rule. You can enforce some role play requirements as a DM if you want, it will never change the outcome.

The DM can always change the rule, and personally I do, but I admit I am changing the rule and will explain my approach to players in a session 0.

D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

Plan to adopt the new core rules?

Yep

Nope

Stormonu

Legend

Lanefan

Victoria Rules

Not a Decepticon

Explorer

soviet

Hero

tetrasodium

Legend

soviet

Hero

tetrasodium

Legend

Oofta

Legend

Oofta

Legend

Oofta

Legend

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