4E Alternity?

[Sadrik]

The core Alternity mechanics are great. d20 + some die type as a +/- difficulty modifier. Then the target numbers are based on your skill and striated (ordinary/good/amazing). So in d20 terms, the DC is static and the difficulty die in relation to how good you are at your skill changes. So the game master rather than sying the DC is 30, you wind up saying you have "-d10", which means roll d20 -d10 and then compare the result to your DC. Very elegant design. That said some of the other non-core systems could really use an update.

A 2e would be a very nice addition to my book shelf.

I don't see that much parallel with the serenity (cortex) system. We played a game of this for several weeks. I had fun in the game but I understood the rules enough to know they seemed unintuitive. The core mechanic I did like though skill die type + Attribute die type vs. DC, not sure about all of the varying DCs though.

 

[masshysteria]

There is one defining feature of Alternity that I'm not sure how a 4e style mechanic would capture--multiple levels of success: Ordinary, Good, Amazing. These three levels also translated directly into the durability track of Stun, Wound, and Mortal.

Some of my favorite Alternity moments are when someone rolled an Amazing success to do something... well... amazing.

 

[LightPhoenix]

There is one defining feature of Alternity that I'm not sure how a 4e style mechanic would capture--multiple levels of success: Ordinary, Good, Amazing. These three levels also translated directly into the durability track of Stun, Wound, and Mortal.

Some of my favorite Alternity moments are when someone rolled an Amazing success to do something... well... amazing.

Well, if you're talking skill checks, that's easy: a variable outcome for how much you beat the DC by. If I were going to do O/G/A for powers in 4E, I would use the build-specific modifiers as a guideline, especially for Encounter powers. Considering hitting defenses, I would consider beating the defense by 5 for a Good result and 10 for an Amazing result a decent starting point (Ordinary is normal). For crits, max damage as normal in 4E, but determine the result normally.

An example power:

[sblock]Double Tap
If the first attack doesn't kill it, the second one might.
At-Will

Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a ranged weapon.
Targets: One or two creatures
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC, two attacks
Hit: 1[W] damage per attack. Increase damage to 2[W] at 21st level.
Good: 1[W] + Dex damage
Amazing: 1[W] + Dex damage, and the target is slowed until the end of its next turn.
Special: Determine Good and Amazing success for each attack separately.
[/sblock]


The wound track is relatively easy: use the disease tracks as a guideline to build them. Then, powers might shift you along the Stun, Wound, or Mortal tracks when they get better results. I would definitely be hesitant to allow at-wills to move along any track but the Stun track. The Mortal track basically replaces the death saving throws.

EDIT: On further thought though, I'm not certain that the Alternity wound tracks are really necessary. HP basically represent the Stun track, Healing Surges are basically the Wound track, and death saves are the Mortal track. Personally, while I like the tracks, I don't think they're really necessary if you're going to make a 4E-style Alternity.

 

[masshysteria]

EDIT: On further thought though, I'm not certain that the Alternity wound tracks are really necessary. HP basically represent the Stun track, Healing Surges are basically the Wound track, and death saves are the Mortal track. Personally, while I like the tracks, I don't think they're really necessary if you're going to make a 4E-style Alternity.

Mortal wounds did apply a step penalty. So, maybe adopting something like the condition track from Star Wars Saga might be better.

 

[arscott]

Hit point revision:

Characters begin with hp based on class:

Combat Spec: 15+Constitution Score
Other: 12+Constitution Score

And gain one additional hp per level gained.

Attacks either deal Stun damage our Wound damage. Armor has a soak rate--wound damage up to the soak rate is converted to stun damage, and stun damage up to the soak rate is ignored.

A character whose combined stun and wound damage equals or exceeds their maximum hp is knocked unconscious. If the character has taken at least half as wound damage, they begin dying.

When an attack scores a critical hit (normally, a natural 20 on the die), the target must make an Endurance check (DC determined by weapon), or fall unconscious. Whether or not they fell unconscious, if the attack dealt wound damage, the character begins dying.

Characters have 3+Con mod mortal points. A dying character must pass a saving throw every round or lose a mortal point. If the character rolls a 20 on the saving throw, or receives medical attention, they are no longer dying and do not make saving throws or lose further mortal points. If a character looses all mortal points, they die.

Characters regain all stun damage with a short rest. Characters regain 1/4 of their total wound damage with an extended rest. Characters who receive medical attention while taking an extended rest regain all their hp and one mortal point.

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

I like the ideas both LightPhoenix and mass have brought up, having Powers that have Ordinary/Good/Amazing results and then adapting the Condition Track from SWSE, I think that could lead to interesting and fun things happening. Plus, the condition track saves from having all those conditions that plague 4e.

Still, part of the appeal of Alternity was the low hit point totals that the characters had...it was lethal for that reason alone, and I think that any newer version of Alternity should mimic that.

 

[Mournblade94]

Alternity was not a game based purely on combat. Everything that makes alternity a great system would be lost in a 4e conversion. A system with a rigorous skill system is a much better fit. So much of alternity would be lost in 4e, and it seems self evident. 4e is not designed for the play style with alternity.

The alternity books are cheap on eBay, I am sure it would be easier and more satisfying to play alternity with those.

 

[El Mahdi]

deleted

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

You can easily do a skills focused game based on the 4e model...not every game based on 4e would have to exactly mimic how D&D 4e does things. A skills focused game could have various Skill Powers that are based on skills that anybody of any profession could pick up, along with their Profession Powers.

It could work like Alternity, every so many skill ranks, and 4e Alternity would work better with more skills than D&D and use skill ranks, but every so many ranks a person can pick a Skill Power based on the skill, enhancing the use of that skill when you use it. These powers can be enhanced further depending on the O/G/A outcome that is core to Alternity.

This could trim down the number of Feats in the game tremendously, as the Feats would be built into the Skill Powers system like this. So all Skill Powers would be 'Utility' powers like in D&D, if you need an equivalent comparison.

Doing this, you could actually then mimic the Combat Skills system in Alternity as well. Keep Levels with your Professions, as the Level would dictate Profession Powers, but in addition to Level bonuses your combat skills could provide unique Combat Skill Powers. Having the Rifle Skill could let you use the Rifle in more ways, especially if your a more Combat aimed Profession (whatever it is, I can't remember). Even the different Professions can have different skill ranks costs for different skills. Your Engineer would pay less for Technical skills and more for some Combat skills than your Soldier types, and vice versa.

Lots of ways to do it, many ways to adapt 4e to Alternity...you just have to think outside the box to do it.

And Alternity 'might' be alive and well still, but I'd really like to see a updated, more modern, version of the game. That's what this thread is all about. Will we ever see it, most likely not, but it would be neat to brainstorm.

 

[tyrlaan]

You can easily do a skills focused game based on the 4e model...not every game based on 4e would have to exactly mimic how D&D 4e does things. A skills focused game could have various Skill Powers that are based on skills that anybody of any profession could pick up, along with their Profession Powers.

It could work like Alternity, every so many skill ranks, and 4e Alternity would work better with more skills than D&D and use skill ranks, but every so many ranks a person can pick a Skill Power based on the skill, enhancing the use of that skill when you use it. These powers can be enhanced further depending on the O/G/A outcome that is core to Alternity.

This could trim down the number of Feats in the game tremendously, as the Feats would be built into the Skill Powers system like this. So all Skill Powers would be 'Utility' powers like in D&D, if you need an equivalent comparison.

Doing this, you could actually then mimic the Combat Skills system in Alternity as well. Keep Levels with your Professions, as the Level would dictate Profession Powers, but in addition to Level bonuses your combat skills could provide unique Combat Skill Powers. Having the Rifle Skill could let you use the Rifle in more ways, especially if your a more Combat aimed Profession (whatever it is, I can't remember). Even the different Professions can have different skill ranks costs for different skills. Your Engineer would pay less for Technical skills and more for some Combat skills than your Soldier types, and vice versa.

Lots of ways to do it, many ways to adapt 4e to Alternity...you just have to think outside the box to do it.

And Alternity 'might' be alive and well still, but I'd really like to see a updated, more modern, version of the game. That's what this thread is all about. Will we ever see it, most likely not, but it would be neat to brainstorm.

What Stacie said

Mimics my sentiments just about to the letter.

Honestly, using the skill challenge framework, I think you can model just about anything, from investigation to ship combat. 4e by no means forces a restricted skill list, so you could literally port the skills right into 4e, build out skill powers and go to town.

I think 4e is way more flexible than people give it credit.