D&D 5E 5e Halcyon Academy (Recruiting/OOC)

[tglassy]

[MENTION=6855204]tglassy[/MENTION] questions about Shape Water cantrip (taken from Creative Cantrips page, valid considerations):

Not necessary that you immediately rule one way or the other, just consider them

Crating Shapes and Animation:
•Complexity – ‘Simple’ is relative. A sculptor PCs should be better than average, but proficiencies and skill checks would apply for anything complex.
•Hardness – Ice is hard, but water could either be hard due to magic or soft as a puddle of water. I will assume it is ‘soft’ so you go slip through it at slow speeds, but it can be HARD at high speeds.
•Can you animate and/or re-shape ice? – Makes sense, but not explicitly stated. It would make ‘hard’ shapes much more useful.
•Can shapes hover or ‘fly’? – A floating ball of water is very thematic, but flight always changes things. A compromise could be a 5’ max height or something.
•Movement speed – DMs will likely rule on the spot here. ‘Animation’ could mean it stays in the same square or use the speed of an Animated Object (per spell). Also check if there a difference between the speed of water and ice shapes.
•What actions could an animated shape do? – Most DMs would only allow pre-programmed, ‘dumb’ motions like walking in one direction or repetitive actions. They may allow action/bonus actions through the object on your round or even autonomy like the Animated Objects spell (but not likely)
•Can my animated object attack? – Explicitly it doesn’t allow damage but it could splash onto enemies as a help action or be a delivery mechanism (ex. acid flask). Expect it to take your attack action to accomplish.
•Can shapes go outside the spell range? – Awesome if they can, but this could be reserved as a limitation to prevent abuse. A DM may rule they stay in a given shape but can’t be animated outside this range or at least can’t move outside it willingly.
•Can moving ice push people around? – Logically yes, but the spell states movement ’doesn’t cause damage’. The DM may allow push or trips using your casting ability score.


Managing Ice and Vapor
•Can you thaw ice too? –Possible oversight in the write up, as thawing anything you can freeze is pretty minor.
•What else can melt that ice? – The write up states it melts only after an hour, so magic keeps it that way. Dragonfire probably melts it too, but can you place it in a bonfire or does it melt slowly with a candle?
•Can you change the water’s temperature? –Ice is cold by definition, so you can cool it. But if you can thaw water, what temp would it be thawed to and can you control that? 33 degrees or room temperature may be important
•Can I encase willing creatures in ice? – It explicitly doesn’t allow you to encase unwilling creatures (good call - no paralysis or suffocation), but could I make bindings when they are asleep?
•Can I affect water vapor? – Not explicit, but reasonable for those cases you have a lot flying around. You will want to follow up with ‘can I condense the water out of the air’. If you can’t, the only way to get liquid water out of the air would be to freeze it and melt it later. Either way, this is a way to find water when you don’t have any.
•Does freezing ice expand? – Either the freezing ice just ‘solidifies’ or it expands like normal ice does. The second one implies the DM expects some ‘normal physics’ to work in his mind and opens up a lot of options. If it doesn’t, you can more freely make ice shapes without worrying about all the details

Wonderful! My favorite cantrip!

The way I've always seen Shape Water is basically a low level water bending. You can levitate the water at a slowish speed, and make it shape itself however you want it to within a five foot cube.

You cannot animate ice, but you can freeze or unfreeze it at any time. The entire thing must be frozen or unfrozen.l, you can't only freeze part of it.

You can make it a vapor, and control that vapor, but you can only condense water vapor into water if the air is saturated with water. So, the conditions would have to be right.

Ice expands. Cause physics. You do not, however, have control over the temperature of the water. You are instead using your will to force the water molecules to stop moving and become rigid, or to fly apart and become a gas. Ice will still be cold, but not as cold as it should be, in that it doesn't actually draw heat from its surroundings (you could use it to make a drink cold or something flavorful like that).

Water vapor is no hotter than the water would be, which is room temperature, typically. I realize this is slightly contradictory, but in reality if you made water into vapor, it would be steam, and could scald, and this cantrip can't do that.

As it is not ice due to temperature, but magic, flames won't melt it. If you don't actually let it melt, it'll stay that way for an hour.

It can, however, crack and shatter like normal ice. Ice isn't hard. If you make ice bindings, the D.C. To break them won't be that high, depending on how thick you make it.

I'm on the fence about pykrete. Look it up. If you abuse it, ill nix it, but it could be used to increase the strength of the ice somewhat. It'll make the ice harder to control, though, so no sharp weapons and the complexity of the shape would be lower.

As for creating weapons, you can, but they're made of ice and fragile. Sharp weapons even more so. To get the ice thin enough to be sharp, it wouldn't even nick the skin, really. Blunt weapons would be better. Still takes an action to create, and I'll make you roll a d20 every hit to see if it shatters.


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[MetaVoid]

I didn't even think about creating weapons, but chucking pieces of ice could hurt unarmored opponents

pykrete is ice laced with paper? Or something else that makes it less crystaline, right? The spell specifically calls out that impurities are ignored / small impurities are incased. Living creatures cannot be surrounded - so I'd say no bindings unless the creature is immobile for the round (and even then it would be weak as you say)

Vapor condensed from the air would be air temperature so it makes sense that water turned vapor would be the same (it would juts happen much faster than normal). I like water bending.

Now some of my own questions:
- would that help stop the bleeding? Normal medium creature fits in 5' cube. While I wouldn't allow blood bending within the body (8th level spell perhaps ), blood outside the body is essentially water. If I fix it so that other blood cannot get out, would that help with bleeding effects, lower DC for Heal checks etc...
- freeze / unfreeze superb, BUT can I freeze levitating water and would the ice made continue to float or fall down? I.e. can I float what is essentially big block of ice?
- what is considered simple shape? Quentin is a sailor and basic tub-like boat would be familiar to him and is not hard to shape.

It would fall under the rule of cool to have floating sheet / boat made of ice that keeps floating only as long as Quentin maintains concentration No sleep for you for the next three weeks until we reach the shore

 

[tglassy]

Pykrete is ice laced with 14 percent sawdust. It is incredibly strong, bulletproof at only an inch or two. They've actually made boats out of it. It just melts. It melts slowly, but it melts. You can get crazy with the stuff made from pykrete, which is why I'm on the fence about it. it would probably be a more advanced use of the Shape Water Cantirp, something your character wouldn't be able to do at the beginning.

No blood bending. At all. It's mostly water, but it's not water. So it wouldn't help with healing checks, either.

Yes, you can levitate the ice, but it's slower and more cumbersome than levitating water. You wouldn't be able to throw it at someone, unless you grabbed it and threw it the old fashioned way. Moving water is easier because water naturally flows. Ice doesn't, so it 'feels' heavier.

As for simple shapes, I'm a little lenient with this. Basically, it has to be all one piece, so no hinges or moveable parts. No creating parts and putting them together to make something more complicated, like creating sockets and balls to fit them or anything like that. No detail, like designs or anything like that. If you made the shape of a hand, it wouldn't have any fingers. If you made a face, it wouldn't have any features (no eyes, mouth, ears or anything, and the hair would be all one lump).


Basically, shaping the water requires mental strength. Creating a sphere is easiest. It's the most energy efficient form. A simple square is also fairly easy, but requires a little more mental gymnastics to make sure it's equal on every side. Stretching one side and putting an indention in the other to make a bowl is much harder, as you're doing many things at once. Holding a sheet of water together long enough to freeze it in place is fairly easy. Raising the sides high enough and making it the right shape to flow through water is another thing entirely. The more familiar you are with the shape, the easier it is, but that doesn't mean it's 'easy'.

Moving water is easier than shaping it, so when creating a club, you could move the water through the air real fast, elongating it, and then freezing it in place and grabbing it, instead of trying to make the water shape itself into a club.

I suppose an artist who spent their entire lives working with the Shape Water Cantrip could do amazing things with it, due to their familiarity with the magic, and the medium they are working with (water and ice). But someone at level 0 can do simple things. At higher levels, if he studies with the cantrip, you can ask for more and more complicated uses, and I'll see if you're progressed far enough.

 

[MetaVoid]

I suppose an artist who spent their entire lives working with the Shape Water Cantrip could do amazing things with it, due to their familiarity with the magic, and the medium they are working with (water and ice). But someone at level 0 can do simple things. At higher levels, if he studies with the cantrip, you can ask for more and more complicated uses, and I'll see if you're progressed far enough.

I'm not looking for ways to break it, it is utility cantrip and flavorful, but not dangerous - I guess I could occasionally make a trap out of high-levitating ice, but what dungeon has enough water for such a trap? And outside of the dungeon, where could one hide such a thing If it helps occasionally, superb, but I will mostly play with it rather than use it as an attack cantrip.

No blood means no acids, limes, soaps, mud, quicksand, dead bodies etc...fairly pure water only. Right? Good call.

Now one more question and I'm done What is the equivalent of Waterdeep in your world? I need to change the history - I'll leave the family as-is simply because I don't have to write family history
I even wanted to enter elf room first
She: "I'm a heir to the House!"
Q: "So am I, glad you'll take me in. I'd hate to bed with someone of lesser status"

 

[jonathonhawke]

How would the cantrip work on snow?

 

[tglassy]

To be honest, I'm leaving much of the world up to you. It is not Forgotten Realms, but i will let you develop your own area of birth as you see fit. The main things I've established at this point is that for the most part, the races don't mix. Each race has their own land, politics, etc. Not that it's impossible for one to live outside their race's nation, but it's noticeable when it happens. With the possible exception of a few trade cities.

The Academy is somewhat of a culture shock for everyone, as it is a hodgepodge of anything and everything. If you want to be the heir to your house, by all means, be the heir to your house. There's a reason you were chosen for the Academy.

As for snow, I'd imagine it'd be hard to manipulate, because snow is technically a lot of little pieces, rather than one large one. The Shape Water cantrip wouldn't be able to make snow, that would be too delicate a process by far. And probably not able to control the snow, either, as it would fall apart too easily, and the shape has to be one piece. So, snow would be something of a non entity for the Shape Water cantrip, I think.

 

[MetaVoid]

I would be from human empire with sea/ocean access - what would be the best fit? I'll rename the city, change the description (8t level character has magical equipment and it doesn't fit)

As for my weapon, armor and shield - armor is actually clothes made of fish skin, exotic, but not armor. Trident and shield are props, I'll throw them into the sea once we come closer - you can choose to have them disappear, re-appear or leave them there for me to find them at some later point in time.

Snow: melt first, shape later. Create a snowman (packed snow, no longer separate parts, more like ice), animate, win

 

[jonathonhawke]

Snow: melt first, shape later. Create a snowman (packed snow, no longer separate parts, more like ice), animate, win

Throw snowballs from anywhere within range?

 

[MetaVoid]

Throw snowballs from anywhere within range?

No throwing, too slow.

 

[jonathonhawke]

No throwing, too slow.

Then drop it down the back of someone's plate mail?