D&D 5E Analyzing Bless

[FrogReaver]

Let's make that a tad more realistic. A party of four instead of six:
400% damage per round.
1600% after four rounds.

At the start of the round:
round 1: 375%
round 2: 850%
round 3: 1325%
round 4: 1800%

At the end of the round:
round 1: 300%
round 2: 775%
round 3: 1250%
round 4: 1725%

Psuedo-averages:
round 1: 337.5%
round 2: 812.5%
round 3: 1287.5%
round 4: 1762.5%

At best that's an 12.5% increase, after four turns, assuming all survive that long, versus regular damage.
(General rule of thumb appears to be 1/2X increase, where X is the number of people in the party)

The reason I didn't use 4 players is because the difference between having 2 or 3 combat specialist characters will greatly skew the results one way or the other. In a 6 man party I can just assume 3 combat specialists and that I am giving them bless. Seems like an easier fairer comparison that can more easily be used to extrapolate out for a 4 man party.

It doesn't impact the analysis above but it will impact the next phase and that's why I chose 6 instead of 4.

To summarize: because it's far less likely to have 3 combat specialist in a 4 man party than a 6 man party I chose the 6 man party so that I wouldn't have to waste one target of bless by blessing wizard...

 

[Yunru]

Really?

The only classes I can think of that might not benefit from Bless offensively is the Wizard or the Cleric, and even then the Wizard can cast Firebolt.
Especially with cantrips, "combat specialists" are no longer the average damage dealer, they're the cream of the crop.

 

[Croesus]

Step 1: Let every character in the party be an exact replica. This means bless will impact each character the same. (This isn't real world yet, but if we handle this case first we can later come back and add party member differences into the party).

And you lose me at this step. I've never seen a party where damage output is consistent across all the characters, and clerics usually lag considerably behind the pure fighters. For example, the 5th level cleric that casts bless on the 5th level barbarian (2 attacks per round) and the 5th level paladin (2 attacks per round + smite) is going to have a lot more impact than simply casting sacred flame or swinging his mace one time each round. A smart player picks the characters that will benefit most from the bless spell, not just some random 3 characters.

Then add in the huge benefit to saves that has already been mentioned in this thread. The two effects, and the ability to focus the benefits on the characters that will benefit most, makes bless a very good spell for pretty much any level party. At least, that's been my experience since 5E came out. YMMV

 

[Corwin]

Bless is great. Sometimes. But it doesn't always make everything better. Nor solve every problem.

 

[FrogReaver]

And you lose me at this step. I've never seen a party where damage output is consistent across all the characters, and clerics usually lag considerably behind the pure fighters. For example, the 5th level cleric that casts bless on the 5th level barbarian (2 attacks per round) and the 5th level paladin (2 attacks per round + smite) is going to have a lot more impact than simply casting sacred flame or swinging his mace one time each round. A smart player picks the characters that will benefit most from the bless spell, not just some random 3 characters.

Then add in the huge benefit to saves that has already been mentioned in this thread. The two effects, and the ability to focus the benefits on the characters that will benefit most, makes bless a very good spell for pretty much any level party. At least, that's been my experience since 5E came out. YMMV

*YAWN* Maybe if you would read the whole durn thing....

You know what nevermind. You will see the conclusion once I'm finished with all. You can judge then. There's a reason for starting out with exact replicas but I guess that doesn't really matter to someone that just wants the final results.

 

[bid]

High hit: 15/20 + 2.5 ~ 1/6 gain
Middle hit: 10/20 + 2.5 ~ 1/4 gain
Low hit: 5/20 + 2.5 ~ 1/2 gain

Melee hit: 1d8+3 ~ 7.5
Guiding bolt: 4d6 ~ 14
Spiritual weapon: 2d8+6 ~ 15

D: charater DPR
x: number of rounds
N: number of characters

Normal damage = NDx
{+Dx} with spiritual weapon: NDx + Dx
{+D} with guiding bolt: NDx - D + 2D
{+D(.5x-1)} with bless (high): NDx - D + .5Dx
{+D(.75x-1)} with bless (mid): NDx - D + .75Dx
{+D(1.5x-1)} with bless (low): NDx - D + 1.5Dx


At cleric's 3rd action:
- bless is no better than a normal attack against "easy" targets.
- bless is no better than guiding bolt against "average" targets
- bless is better than spiritual weapon against "hard" targets

This assumes the reckless barbarian doesn't have double the DPR and that we don't care about saves.

 

[Croesus]

*YAWN* Maybe if you would read the whole durn thing....

You know what nevermind. You will see the conclusion once I'm finished with all. You can judge then. There's a reason for starting out with exact replicas but I guess that doesn't really matter to someone that just wants the final results.

Okay, let me see if I understand. You posted at the very beginning of this thread "So, it's a general consensus that bless is very powerful. I challenge that consensus." But you only posted part of your analysis? If you haven't done the analysis, then your statement above is premature. If you have done the analysis, why not post it immediately? I'm very confused by your method of argument.

 

[Gladius Legis]

If you scout out your surroundings before entering combat (e.g. stealthy Rogue, divination spells, etc.) it's very possible you'll be casting Bless shortly before the start of combat. In which case your party is strictly stronger from Round 1.

There's also plenty of cases where Bless is ideal to cast even in Round 1 of combat, such as you're a Paladin who is farther than 30 feet away from the nearest enemy and you wouldn't be able to make a melee attack, anyway.

 

[Mephista]

I find that Bless ends up being used by the Paladin more than the Cleric, to be honest. Combined with their +Cha to saves, I've found that it actually has a pretty strong chance of staying around in game. Combined with shield tricks running rampant, and, well, its a powerful tool in their arsenal.

 

[guachi]

If I had bless and I couldn't cast it in the first round on at least two targets that had yet to act I wouldn't cast the spell.

As the OP has shown, it takes only until the end of round two to exceed no-bless damage using a simplified party.

As Gladius Legis states, before combat or Paladin out of range are great times to use it.

Otherwise, a 5th level Paladin is probably better served attacking twice. And if I were a cleric I'd be tempted to cast spiritual weapon and sacred flame on round 1 of combat instead.