Archer Question

[Sinklar]

Situation:

Character is Bugbear 5th level Cleric and 1st level Fighter. Has the following feats:

Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Improved Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (Comp. Longbow), Craft Magic Arms and Armor

The character has a Mighty Composite Longbow of Speed +2. (Can a Mighty Comp. Longbow be enchanted?)

Base Attack bonus (classes): +4
Base Attack Bonus (bugbear): +2
DEX: +3
Weapon Focus: +1
Weapon: +2

This is the quote from the player:

"The speed property gives one extra attack at the highest attack bonus. So currently, I have 2 base attacks at +12 and +7. With improved rapid shot, I have 3 atacks at +12;+12;+7. With the Speed property I have 4 attacks at +12;+12;+12;+7. Eat your heart out, Legolas!!"

I've been looking over this and am wanting to make sure it is all legit. Does Rapid Shot and Speed stack? Can this player really make 4 attacks a round at the bonuses indicated?

 

[hong]

"The speed property gives one extra attack at the highest attack bonus. So currently, I have 2 base attacks at +12 and +7. With improved rapid shot, I have 3 atacks at +12;+12;+7. With the Speed property I have 4 attacks at +12;+12;+12;+7. Eat your heart out, Legolas!!"

I've been looking over this and am wanting to make sure it is all legit. Does Rapid Shot and Speed stack? Can this player really make 4 attacks a round at the bonuses indicated?

If you let the player take the broken Improved Rapid Shot feat, that's your problem. But as it stands, yes, he gets 4 attacks with a full attack action, and 2 with a standard attack. And really, depending on the ECL for being a bugbear, +12 isn't even that maxed out. A 9th level fighter with the same equipment and feats could get +15/+15/+15/+10, and with bracers of archery and gloves of dex, that could get up to +20/+20/+20/+15.

 

[Sinklar]

Re: Re: Archer Question

If you let the player take the broken Improved Rapid Shot feat, that's your problem. But as it stands, yes, he gets 4 attacks with a full attack action, and 2 with a standard attack. And really, depending on the ECL for being a bugbear, +12 isn't even that maxed out. A 9th level fighter with the same equipment and feats could get +15/+15/+15/+10, and with bracers of archery and gloves of dex, that could get up to +20/+20/+20/+15.

1.) You think the Improved Rapid Shot feat is broken? Why? I'm not attacking you. I'm just curious, as I've never heard of anyone having a problem with it.

2.) ECL for a Bugbear is 4, which as a 'humanoid' means the BAB falls into the cleric catagory, so +2 is the BAB.

Considering this is a Cleric of Malaar...this is going to be a scary character.

 

[Zad]

Can a Mighty Comp. Longbow be enchanted?

Sure. It's a normal weapon like any other. Why couldn't it be enchanted?

As for the attacks, it seems correct given the rules. It seems excessive but as indicated, a straight fighter of comparable level can do about the same thing. Or you can tally it up and compare it to melee attacks. The real difference between archery and melee is that archers usually hit more often, but melee can do a lot more damage per shot via power attack etc. Then there's the AOOs and so on.

If you think of it as a 6th level character, sure it looks excessive. If you look at it as a 9th level or so character due to the race, it's not too crazed.

 

[dvvega]

It is all legit as far as I can tell also.

Speed stacks with anything except Haste effects. Rapid Shot/Improved Rapid Shot is the kicker there.

The only problem here is the following. This is only valid IF the character made the weapon himself.

... he needs a caster level at least 7 (he has only 5)

why? read the section on creating magical items.

Quoted from SRD

Caster Level for Weapons
The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

The Speed ability has a requirement of caster level 7, a +2 weapon requires caster level 6. So he needs 2 more caster levels to make the item.

So if this is the case, he has to wait 2 more levels, and then you can handle it

 

[Ysgarran]

Re: Re: Re: Archer Question

1.) You think the Improved Rapid Shot feat is broken? Why? I'm not attacking you. I'm just curious, as I've never heard of anyone having a problem with it.

Considering this is a Cleric of Malaar...this is going to be a scary character.

Is this from the Dragon? I always distrust the balance of feats, weapons and prestige classes from the Drgn magazine. My first reaction is that 'Improved Rapid Shot' is that it is broken. Take a look at the Melee equivalent. 'Improved Two Weapon' fighting gives you an extra attack at -5 with the off-hand. It does not take away the penalties for two weapon fighting. You don't even get to take it until you have a BAB bonus of +9. I think the designers had a a good reason for not decreasing the penalty for two weapon fighting.

With Masters of the Wild, the path for Ambidexterity/Two Weapon fighting centers around giving extra attacks with the 'off-hand' weapon at another -5. In order to decrease the penalty you actually have to take a prestige class.

This is a first reaction but until I have time to actually play with the numbers I'll admit that I could be wrong. When I have the time (well, if I have the time) to run the numbers I'll post them...

 

[Sinklar]

4 attacks a round...

Thanks all. I was hoping someone would tell me this was not possible, but it does stack up correctly. As long as he stands still and only makes a 5 foots step, Malaar's cleric is going to be dishing out some major long range artillery fire.

Oh, and dvvega, the Bow was a gift/reward to his character for services rendered in the line of duty. The player is currently itching to apply the 'flaming' enchantment on it. *sigh*

And, Zad, you are absolutely correct. Essentially, this is a 10th level character, so it really isn't TOO much.

FYI, this character is from a campaign about a group of monsters in the employ of a mercenary company. Here is a list of what else in in the party:

Niik - 10th level Sorceror, Kobold
Hogg - 4th level Fighter, Ogre
Tchxlick - Tchxlick, 2nd level Rogue, Formian warrior
Blinkin - 4th level Druid/1st level Rogue, Pixie
Mr. Smith - 2nd level Monk, Doppelganger
Konk - 1st level Barbarian, Troll

Surprisingly enought, the party is very well balanced. They complement each other nicely. The Kobold, who is actually the party leader, is leaving the group in a couple of weeks, so the Cleric of Malaar will probably take over the leadership duties.

 

[dvvega]

The Kobold Sorcerer is a good choice

BTW ... my comments still hold if he wants to add Flaming himself. It requires a caster level of 10. He's going to have to get the Kobold to do it for him

 

[Sinklar]

The Kobold Sorcerer is a good choice

BTW ... my comments still hold if he wants to add Flaming himself. It requires a caster level of 10. He's going to have to get the Kobold to do it for him

What do you think he's trying to do over the next 2 weeks? LOL! I gotta tell you, it's hilarious watching that little Kobold wheel and deal with all these THINGS that are five times his size. They leave him alone though...especially the troll!

"No burn Konk, okay?"

 

[Pielorinho]

This looks legit to me. Make sure, of course, that you rigorously enforce the rule that multiple attacks require a full-round action (or the extra shot granted by speed weapons).

Compare to a barbarian/fighter/Tribal Protector/Frenzied Berzerker, who by that level can be making four attacks/round WITHOUT any magic, and be doing 25 points of damage per average hit, and have an attack routine around +20/+20/+20/+15 (+10 BAB, +11 for str [20 +2 for levelups +4 for rage +6 for frenzy], +1 for weapon focus, -2 for wild fighting). (Damage from greatsword = 7 average +16 STR bonus +2 weapon specialization). Then you can lay some magic down on this puppy (bull's strength, a magic weapon, bless, prayer, etc.) if you want things to get ugly.

Daniel