D&D (2024) Bard Playtest discussion

[Chaosmancer]

No, it won't come up every combat.

Because resources are finite and not every combat will present a situation where you want to burn both in the same round.

You start with two Inspiration. For 6-8 encounters per day. At 7th that goes to per Short Rest and you have reached what, three Inspiration? So that's still not often. It'd have to be a hell of a round to make burning two make sense.

Most other subclasses don't have the same sort of issue, though some do have a problem with the Inspiration not sticking around.

You realize that doesn't make the situation any better, and in fact worse right? This is another thing I strongly dislike about the current iteration, the bardic inspiration has been drastically cut and with Fount moving to 7th, it will be even longer until it feels like you can use it outside of "emergencies".

And is that emergency going to be turning a failed save into a success, or a hit into a miss? Those are both fundamentally useful things, but it is going to take 50% of the bard's resources to do one, and they cannot prep another character to succeed, and then use their cutting words to protect a second. I do like it being a reaction meaning that it can't be forgotten or wasted, but I think there are some massive restrictions that came along with both abilities being reactions.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I like the spell groups, arcane, primal and divine but if they end up doing spell preparation this way for all classes, then how will the wizard be affected? A prime ability of the wizard is learning new spells in a way that others can't. If that is no longer relevant, will he just get all arcane spells? To the point on the bard though, being able to choose 2 spells from any list and then at 15th potentially 2 from a third list gives the bard at least some access to every spell in the game, and he can change his choices after a long rest. That, I think is too much. You can have a character then that can do high level healing and high level area attacks. Also, if this means taking away the added Magic Secrets from the Lore bard I'm not a fan. That's the Lore bard's signature ability, more lore. Making Cutting Words a reaction could be beneficial. I like that. I would tentatively suggest making 2 Magic Secret spells from another list bard spells for you and those are your choices. You could still change when you gain prepared spell slots, and instead of Cunning Inspiration, let the lore bard have 2 more at 6th. You could still say those are always prepared and don't count against his limit. It would still be potent for a bard to have 4-6 spells from anywhere at high levels without giving him everything under the sun.

I keep seeing people say this, but... this isn't quite accurate?

They didn't take away the second magical secrets from Lore Bard, they gave magical secrets to every bard. Every bard now gets two magical secrets, just like the Lore bard. Also, they have fundamentally changed how it works, which actually does make it more fitting for every bard, and not just the lore bard.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's just so incredibly niche. In 99% of D&D games, Stealth is going to be rolled more than Perform: Tambourine, and the check outcome is going to matter more. It just matters significantly less than the other skills. Meanwile, Thieves Tools is disproportionately used more than the other tool proficiencies, so should migrate to a real skill.

And before everyone tells me about how, in their 17 year long campaign, the only time a d20 was used for Tambourine checks... that's great! But that's not reflective of published D&D adventures, which should at least serve as the default baseline.

In most games, if a player picks peform, they basically start with one less skill, or at least one replaced in almost every way with a tool. Skills are supposed to be more valuable than tools, that's why you can replace a skill with a tool/language, but not the reverse. Or gain a tool/language in downtime, but not a skill. They already moved most of what would fall under "secondary skills" to tools. Perform is the proud nail they refuse to address.

No more useless than Animal Handling. Sleight of Hand only comes up as trap stuff too, which is covered by thieves tools, so it is worthless. Intimidation. History. Nature.

If you are going to declare something worthless, then refuse any examples where it might be useful, because you only want to look at the published adventures, then you can basically cut any skill that isn't stealth, persuasion, insight, perception, investigation or athletics. But there are uses for these skills, and things people use them for, even if you don't ever use them yourself.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You realize that doesn't make the situation any better, and in fact worse right? This is another thing I strongly dislike about the current iteration, the bardic inspiration has been drastically cut and with Fount moving to 7th, it will be even longer until it feels like you can use it outside of "emergencies".

And is that emergency going to be turning a failed save into a success, or a hit into a miss? Those are both fundamentally useful things, but it is going to take 50% of the bard's resources to do one, and they cannot prep another character to succeed, and then use their cutting words to protect a second. I do like it being a reaction meaning that it can't be forgotten or wasted, but I think there are some massive restrictions that came along with both abilities being reactions.

Disagree.

It doesn't "make it worse".

It shows there is another, real issue that's worth being concerned about, rather than the corner-case issue you were previously illustrating.

 

[FireLance]

Just popping in here to bitterly observe that with Bardic Inspiration, a bard can shout/sing/declaim/harp/dance a wound closed, but it's okay because Magic!

That is all.

 

[Haplo781]

Mike "singing hands back on" Mearls

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Just popping in here to bitterly observe that with Bardic Inspiration, a bard can shout/sing/declaim/harp/dance a wound closed, but it's okay because Magic!

Hit points aren't always meat points, healing isn't always "closing wounds", and bards have always been able to heal through music because of magic in 5e.

 

[Haplo781]

Hit points aren't always meat points, healing isn't always "closing wounds", and bards have always been able to heal through music because of magic in 5e.

Tell it to Mike "shouting hands back on" Mearls.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Tell it to Mike "shouting hands back on" Mearls.

Just because Mike Mearls mimicked some talking points from the 4e edition wars does not mean that the complaint is valid. Hit points don't only represent physical endurance/health. Normal healing has never regenerated entire appendages. Bards are magic. There are other nonmagical ways of healing in 5e. Thus, that complaint is stupid.

 

[Haplo781]

Just because Mike Mearls mimicked some talking points from the 4e edition wars does not mean that the complaint is valid. Hit points don't only represent physical endurance/health. Normal healing has never regenerated entire appendages. Bards are magic. There are other nonmagical ways of healing in 5e. Thus, that complaint is stupid.

That... Was the point.