D&D (2024) Bastion rules: every pub owner is at least 13th level

[Horwath]

I want Bastion Points to remain. What makes this system fun, in part at least, is the game-like aspects. Making it just a gold merchant simulator is boring and I really don't want to make spreadsheets to count all my different incomes and have to worry about taxes and jesus christ I do not want to do accounting in this game. Give me Bastion Points. Please.

Why do you want additional currency to track, when it's used to buy physical object, tradegoods and workforce?
Standard currency(gold/silver/whatever) works just fine as with the rest of the goods from PHB, DMG.

 

[Shardstone]

Why do you want additional currency to track, when it's used to buy physical object, tradegoods and workforce?
Standard currency(gold/silver/whatever) works just fine as with the rest of the goods from PHB, DMG.

Because the gold prices get too high man. I don't want to be tracking hundreds or thousands of gold income from several different buildings when I could just have 1d4 points, total them up to like maybe 20 points total and see what I want to do. And I don't want to crunch math on how to maximize huge amounts of gold when I can just use the metacurrency to do it. Furthermore, I think that since D&D has now moved far away from the old days of relying on a lot of gold, it makes more sense to rely on metacurrencies for things like this.

If it was just spend gold on a big fancy building and that was it, it'd be good. But if I have to keep track of gold going in and gold going out, I'm basically playing landlord + real estate agent and that is NOT what I want to be doing.

On top of all that, given how absolutely stupid most things are in terms of prices (for gold), it just introduces a lot of complicated math when I'm trying to figure out how much to pay the people living in my bastion. Every time my bastion increases I now have to update my huge amount of gold merchant spreadsheets to account for new workers. It sounds like the complete opposite of fun, and it sounds very time consuming. And, since a lot of currency at higher levels is earned through gems and art pieces, I have to then go through selling that, negotiating all of it, totaling up the gold, deciding how much gold goes to my basic living expenses, how much I'm using on equipment, how much I'm using on Bastions, how much I'm paying my employees. Making this system gold just adds SO MUCH.

Bastion points are you roll a die, save or spend the result. Easy. Streamlined. That takes a few seconds to do and lets me then focus my brainspace on the more enjoyable details of the Bastion System.

I just imagine a gold-based Bastion-system requiring a Bastion Turn be an entire session where we're all busting out calculators on our phones and doing longform math. That is, for me, the complete opposite of fun.

Now if I'm being fully honest, I don't think gold OR Bastion Points are necessary. I think there should just be a Bastion Check and different buildings have different modifiers. You choose which checks you want to make, roll them, and reference the individual buildings to see what your check can get you this turn. You could use a CLock system for long projects, like magic items and building defensive walls, and checks can take one or more segments off of the clock. This streamlines the system into an appropriate 5E game IMO, removing any and all bookkeeping.

 

[Horwath]

Because the gold prices get too high man. I don't want to be tracking hundreds or thousands of gold income from several different buildings when I could just have 1d4 points, total them up to like maybe 20 points total and see what I want to do. And I don't want to crunch math on how to maximize huge amounts of gold when I can just use the metacurrency to do it. Furthermore, I think that since D&D has now moved far away from the old days of relying on a lot of gold, it makes more sense to rely on metacurrencies for things like this.

If it was just spend gold on a big fancy building and that was it, it'd be good. But if I have to keep track of gold going in and gold going out, I'm basically playing landlord + real estate agent and that is NOT what I want to be doing.

On top of all that, given how absolutely stupid most things are in terms of prices (for gold), it just introduces a lot of complicated math when I'm trying to figure out how much to pay the people living in my bastion. Every time my bastion increases I now have to update my huge amount of gold merchant spreadsheets to account for new workers. It sounds like the complete opposite of fun, and it sounds very time consuming. And, since a lot of currency at higher levels is earned through gems and art pieces, I have to then go through selling that, negotiating all of it, totaling up the gold, deciding how much gold goes to my basic living expenses, how much I'm using on equipment, how much I'm using on Bastions, how much I'm paying my employees. Making this system gold just adds SO MUCH.

Bastion points are you roll a die, save or spend the result. Easy. Streamlined. That takes a few seconds to do and lets me then focus my brainspace on the more enjoyable details of the Bastion System.

I just imagine a gold-based Bastion-system requiring a Bastion Turn be an entire session where we're all busting out calculators on our phones and doing longform math. That is, for me, the complete opposite of fun.

Now if I'm being fully honest, I don't think gold OR Bastion Points are necessary. I think there should just be a Bastion Check and different buildings have different modifiers. You choose which checks you want to make, roll them, and reference the individual buildings to see what your check can get you this turn. You could use a CLock system for long projects, like magic items and building defensive walls, and checks can take one or more segments off of the clock. This streamlines the system into an appropriate 5E game IMO, removing any and all bookkeeping.

BP is worth about 25GP, so 20 of them is 500, that is third of a full-plate, and on general party carries around thousands of gold on them at any given moment if above 5th level.

 

[Shardstone]

BP is worth about 25GP, so 20 of them is 500, that is third of a full-plate, and on general party carries around thousands of gold on them at any given moment if above 5th level.

Indeed, and this is my critique of the system; it requires storing huge numbers of points in order to get anything decent. I consider this a flaw in the current design. I think BP costs should flatout just be lower across the board and that its connection to gold should be FULLY severed.
Full-Plate should only require like 4 BP IMO (max on a specific given turn).

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because the gold prices get too high man. I don't want to be tracking hundreds or thousands of gold income from several different buildings when I could just have 1d4 points, total them up to like maybe 20 points total and see what I want to do. And I don't want to crunch math on how to maximize huge amounts of gold when I can just use the metacurrency to do it. Furthermore, I think that since D&D has now moved far away from the old days of relying on a lot of gold, it makes more sense to rely on metacurrencies for things like this.

If it was just spend gold on a big fancy building and that was it, it'd be good. But if I have to keep track of gold going in and gold going out, I'm basically playing landlord + real estate agent and that is NOT what I want to be doing.

On top of all that, given how absolutely stupid most things are in terms of prices (for gold), it just introduces a lot of complicated math when I'm trying to figure out how much to pay the people living in my bastion. Every time my bastion increases I now have to update my huge amount of gold merchant spreadsheets to account for new workers. It sounds like the complete opposite of fun, and it sounds very time consuming. And, since a lot of currency at higher levels is earned through gems and art pieces, I have to then go through selling that, negotiating all of it, totaling up the gold, deciding how much gold goes to my basic living expenses, how much I'm using on equipment, how much I'm using on Bastions, how much I'm paying my employees. Making this system gold just adds SO MUCH.

Bastion points are you roll a die, save or spend the result. Easy. Streamlined. That takes a few seconds to do and lets me then focus my brainspace on the more enjoyable details of the Bastion System.

I just imagine a gold-based Bastion-system requiring a Bastion Turn be an entire session where we're all busting out calculators on our phones and doing longform math. That is, for me, the complete opposite of fun.

Now if I'm being fully honest, I don't think gold OR Bastion Points are necessary. I think there should just be a Bastion Check and different buildings have different modifiers. You choose which checks you want to make, roll them, and reference the individual buildings to see what your check can get you this turn. You could use a CLock system for long projects, like magic items and building defensive walls, and checks can take one or more segments off of the clock. This streamlines the system into an appropriate 5E game IMO, removing any and all bookkeeping.

There are logistics involved in having employees and owning property. D&D, even now, at least pretends to be a game with rules related to the in-universe setting. The kind of metacurrency-based rules you want are, IMO, better off in another game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Indeed, and this is my critique of the system; it requires storing huge numbers of points in order to get anything decent. I consider this a flaw in the current design. I think BP costs should flatout just be lower across the board and that its connection to gold should be FULLY severed.
Full-Plate should only require like 4 BP IMO (max on a specific given turn).

Then where did the building come from? Do the PCs just wish it into existence when they hit the appropriate level?

 

[Maxperson]

So, I just ended up finishing the survey for the Bastion rules, and that led me to realizing that... some of them make you WORSE at doing the thing you are trying to do.

By a lot.

Let's take the Smithy. At 5th level, you can choose to get a smithy, and this allows you to make weapons and armor. You can do the following:

• 7 days --> Create 20 pieces of ammunition or one simple weapon at half cost. Make ONE of the following at half cost: 20 Caltrops, a Chain (10feet), a Crowbar, a Grappling Hook, a Hammer (regular or sledge), 4 horseshoes, a Hunting Trap, a set of Manacles, a Miner’s Pick, 10 Iron Spikes or Pitons, an Iron Pot, a metal Shield, or a Shovel.
• 14 days --> Make a martial weapon at half cost or make a Masterwork simple weapon for 800 gp
• 21 days --> Make a suit of medium or heavy armor, or a Masterwork Martial weapon for 800 gp

Hey, here's something fun. Ever heard of Xanathar's? The Crafting rules in Xanathar's says that if you borrow a forge from someone you can craft 50 gp of items in a five day workweek. That week you spend ordering your people to make 10 ft of chain? In that same week you could make EVERYTHING from that week list including the simple weapon and the ammo. What about Martial weapons? Literally any of them in the work week, and actually multiple of them depending (can only make one greatsword, but you can make 10 shortswords). Oh, also? Chain Shirt, Scale Mail, and Ring mail only take a week, with Chain Mail taking a week and half. Literally twice as fast as the Smithy.

Now, it COULD be useful for making Breastplate, halfplate, splint or full plate, as those do actually take longer, but that is literally it.

They've said that in AL any updated rules in 2024 have to be used, so the old 2014(edition, not year) Xanathar's rules would be replaced by the new Bastion crafting. That and we don't know for sure that they aren't going to apply generally. WotC might apply that rule across the board.

 

[Horwath]

Indeed, and this is my critique of the system; it requires storing huge numbers of points in order to get anything decent. I consider this a flaw in the current design. I think BP costs should flatout just be lower across the board and that its connection to gold should be FULLY severed.
Full-Plate should only require like 4 BP IMO (max on a specific given turn).

500 is huge numbers?

Did most people miss their 2nd grade calculus?

also, most "expensive" prices are multiples of "100", cant remember when I saw last time price of 2758.


The game must have only ONE currency, be that gold, BPs, Etherium, stolen souls or whatever.

There is no need for gold being for food and drinks,
BPs for construction projects,
Etherium for magic items,
or souls for divine scrolls/potions.

Sure, those can exist as TRADE goods, that means 100% interchangeable with gold and one another.
Same with gemstones, a 10 carat ruby is worth same amount of gold in the whole setting/game.
It's just more practical way to carry large amount of value(gold)

 

[Yaarel]

I agree, there should be only one currency. But I prefer magic has no part of it.

Magic is about personal relationships, not commodities.

I like attunement as a personal capacity and gating access by tier and level.


In my view, every magic item requires attuning to the intention of its creator. Some items are intended for easy use by anyone. But other items are part of a deeper purpose.

Like the persons who created them, magic items can refuse to comply, and cannot be bought or sold. Magic requires personal relationships if when unspoken.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I agree, there should be only one currency. But I prefer magic has no part of it.

Magic is about personal relationships, not commodities.

I like attunement as a personal capacity and gating access by tier and level.


In my view, every magic item requires attuning to the intention of its creator. Some items are intended for easy use by anyone. But other items are part of a deeper purpose.

Like the persons who created them, magic items can refuse to comply, and cannot be bought or sold. Magic requires personal relationships if when unspoken.

That's a cool idea, but magic is usually portrayed in a very scientific way in D&D.