Battlerager Vigor - post July 2009 update

[thecasualoblivion]

The biggest issue with the Battlerager now is that his weaknesses are more exposed. His Reflex and Will are going to be suboptimal, he's going to deal less damage(being encouraged to use invigorating powers and his bonus damage from temporary HP will be less reliable, not to mention no +1 to attack and being encouraged to use less accurate weapons), he is the worst Fighter at controlling multiple enemies(there are no multiple target Invigorating powers), now unable to ignore minions and Opportunity Attacks like before, and less able to engage in suicidal risky behavior in general. The old BRV covered up a lot of holes.

 

[keterys]

Well, in the example above, the fighter
1) Chose to use invigorating powers an awful lot
2) Gained 15 temp hp that a non-BRV fighter would have gained, because a normal fighter benefits from invigorating powers just fine

That is to say, a weapon talent fighter could similarly use those powers and gain 8 temp. Technically, his +1 might also have meant one additional hit (4 more temp) and/or that a monster died faster (one less hit for, say, 7 damage, taken).

The new version of BRV looks to be far better balanced and a real choice.

 

[Saeviomagy]

The new version of BRV looks to be far better balanced

Given monstrosity of brokenness it was before, not hard.

and a real choice.

Still not. Even without using invigorating powers, he's sitting on 16 temp hps.

And that totally ignores multi attacks, OAs, combat challenge attacks, granted attacks etc, all of which dramatically improve things. A dual striking brv for instance would have a 75% chance of hitting with his at-will.

 

[Kzach]

The old BRV covered up a lot of holes.

You're choosing potato, I'm choosing potato.

As far as I'm concerned, the BRV was extremely overpowered. It wasn't covering up any holes at all, it was completely ignoring them and stepping over them as if they didn't exist.

 

[keterys]

Still not. Even without using invigorating powers, he's sitting on 16 temp hps.

Well, in the top example it'd actually be 9 temp.

And that totally ignores multi attacks, OAs, combat challenge attacks, granted attacks etc, all of which dramatically improve things. A dual striking brv for instance would have a 75% chance of hitting with his at-will.

Perhaps, but I'd often rather spend less on Con, or the feat, or invigorating powers at all and get the +1 to attack.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

It seems better, though still powerful. I'd be willing to test it in my games now, though.

 

[krakaD]

I am currently playing a warforged BRV. In my party there are also a ranger(bow), a bard, and a beast form druid. At level 5 I gave a talon amulet equiped and I do more damage by getting OA and healing most of the damage then striking the strongest opponent after the bard casts warsong strike and stirring shout. That keeps me mostly healed and leaves the druid free to run around the field giving CA to everybody through me, because the bard and ranger have distance advantage. Though I dont think this is a broken party or class. The heavy hitters still go after the bard and ranger, so the druid and I still have to try and distract the them. Plus our dmand any good dm IMO should usually have atleast a couple of ranged and AOE enemies. In general we fight about 5 non-minions per encounter. Dragons for example are the bane of BRVs. The fly out of range and have AOEs. That is why I want to dual class as a conlock, but thats a whole other controversy. in the right/wrong situation most classes can be just as broken. Our DM thought he was going to overwhelm us on a previous campaign with undead that spawned more undead every round. He didnt realize our cleric could turn undead and unleash an AOE nearly wiping out the entire room. There is a cery good reason why there are DMs. It is their responsibility to make sure that the handful of broken situations are tweaked as needed. Thats why DND is customizable.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Well, in the top example it'd actually be 9 temp.

Wow, yeah. I just totally critically fumbled my math there.

Perhaps, but I'd often rather spend less on Con, or the feat, or invigorating powers at all and get the +1 to attack.

Yeah, I definately think that the balance is a lot closer, and I'd actually be willing to let the current version into a game for a trial.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

It seems better, though still powerful. I'd be willing to test it in my games now, though.

*hopes harder for 24 - Day 3*