Battlestar Galactica-Final Season (4) 4/4/08--He That Believeth In Me

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I was actually fooled for a second. I thought that they were going to reveal that Adama was the final Cylon. Then I realized that that wouldn't make much sense since he would've met up with Tigh and the others earlier. Plus, why would a Final Five shoot another Final Five?

BTW, is anyone else confused by the logic in this episode? The crew seems convinced that the Cylons could have wiped them out in the attack and are confused as to why they would retreat. Now, they seem to think that Starbuck is a Cylon and she is trying to lead them away from Earth as some sort of plot. Does that make any sense? They hold off destroying the fleet (or destroying Galactica and capturing the fleet) in order to lure them into an ambush in order to destroy the fleet (or destroy Galactica and capture the fleet) at some point in the future? :\

I can understand the concern that Starbuck is a Cylon, but it seems their line of thinking is overly complicated.

The question is - what makes sense at all? Why would the Cylons hold off the attacks? The Colonials simply don't know why. Except maybe that Starbuck arrived on the scene. And everyone saw the footage of her ship exploding. If someone can come back from the dead, it are the Cylons.

What is the logical conclusion? Not even we, the viewers know why. We presume that the detection of One of the Final Five triggered the retreat. That makes sense.
But who send back Starbuck, and for what purpose? From the Colonial view, Starbuck appears, and the Cylons retreat. Starbuck is the only unknown here, and there can't be any "good" link between Starbuck and the Cylons?

There is also a tiny thing that might or might not be in the mind of the characters - During Razor, they heard a warning that Starbuck would be bad for them. What did this mean?

So, what's the most sensible thing to do for the Colonials? Continue their path, or change the course?

 

[Villano]

The question is - what makes sense at all?

Like I said, I understand why they would worry that Starbuck is a Cylon. It's reasonable to think that she might be one and have no memory of it, but I find it strange that no one seems to be questioning the logic of calling off an attack that would end the fleet once and for all in order to set up an elaborate, Rube Goldberg-like plot to kill them later.

Roslin says that she thinks that the Cylons are using Starbuck to lead them away from Earth and nobody says, "Excuse me, Madam President, but do you really think the huge Cylon masterplan is not, in fact, to capture or kill us, but have us wander around with no idea where we're going? So, all the attacks and death and enslavement was just a clever ruse to cover up their scheme to force us to fly around the universe in circles?"

"Why didn't they finish us off?" is the big question. "To give us back Starbuck so she can get us lost" doesn't seem to be a reasonable answer.

 

[Joker]

Like I said, I understand why they would worry that Starbuck is a Cylon. It's reasonable to think that she might be one and have no memory of it, but I find it strange that no one seems to be questioning the logic of calling off an attack that would end the fleet once and for all in order to set up an elaborate, Rube Goldberg-like plot to kill them later.

Maybe they're being led by Doctor Evil?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Or for that matter, his cult mostly being nubile young women, one of which he promptly sleeps with. Baltar's story had me laughing right until the attack, and then I stopped. I think Baltar, for all his rampant egomania, is deeply troubled by what he did, and he's suicidal. I don't think he was asking for his life to be taken for the boy's... just that his life be taken at all.

Baltar did not want to go for a mis-trial. He wanted things to end, despite him having a good chance of "losing" and being sentenced to Death. But he is still not willing to take his own life. I guess he really began to feel guilt for what he did, no longer feeling that there is an excuse for him. He betrayed the 12 Colonials, even if not knowingly. He hid information from them. He gave Gina a bomb that killed hundreds of Colonials - and allowed the Cylons to find New Caprica. He collaborated just to save his own skin. He lived among the Cylons, and hid information from them to save himself. He wasn't fully accepted by them, either.
It was about time he feels something about it, and that he questions himself more.
But off course, suicide or being murdered by one of his victims is the easy solution. He won't get that.

I kept waiting for one of the Four to trigger in the battle. I find it interesting that it wasn't a Human-form Cylon that activated the eye-glow (after all, Anders has been in contact with most of them) but one of the "grunts."

I think the Final Five had to be aware of their status before anything could happen. And then, the Raider was the first Cylon device/creature that saw him directly, and during scanning him, he got a response none of the Cylons would have expected. It might even be something that triggers a programming unknown (or forgotten) by the other Cylons.

I think the unspoken realization in CIC between Adama and Roslin was that the Cylons recognized a Final Five in the air. Starbuck's reappearance conveniently shifted attention away from the pilots and on to her. Whether that was intentional or not is unknown. It pretty much gave Anders the pass though, as I'm sure the next move would have been to inspect the pilots, starting with the nuggets.

I like that Tigh brough up Baltar's Cylon-detector. However, once the truth was out about Baltar, I'm amazed they haven't had Gaeta re-test it on Caprica Six. I mean, they have a control! Maybe it's the scientist in me talking.

I think there big problem is that they know that Balthar tested Boomer and she was a Cylon despite his findings. Later tests (if there where any) gave different results, so maybe they trusted it again. But the point is that they seem to be unable to gain 100 % conclusive information. And maybe, the detector really doesn't work on the Final Five anyway.

 

[Einan]

Didn't Athena tell Adama at some point that the raiders and centurions can't distinguish between models? This was done to keep them from becoming self-aware. So it might stand to reason that they can't distinguish between the 7 common models and the final five, once they've been activated.

 

[Arnwyn]

• On of the minor issues that bother me is that it is so hard to detect a difference between humanoid Cylons and humans. No part of human antimony can bioluminescence, but several parts of Cylon anatomy can – that alone should be detectable.

This is a major issue for me, and a tremendous flaw in the show that they seriously botched up. It was 'cute' in the beginning, but turned out to be silly. They can plug into computers. In. To. Computers.

To say that's "not detectable" to artificially (and poorly) create 'drama' is laughable nonsense, and hurts the show AFAIC.

Like I said, I understand why they would worry that Starbuck is a Cylon. It's reasonable to think that she might be one and have no memory of it, but I find it strange that no one seems to be questioning the logic of calling off an attack that would end the fleet once and for all in order to set up an elaborate, Rube Goldberg-like plot to kill them later.

I'm with you. Needless to say, they're not much for justifying many of their decisions. It doesn't help, in any case.



Absolutely fantastic dog-fight scenes in this one. Way, way, way above my expectations. Holy crap, that was better-than-TV stuff.

 

[Mark Hope]

I think there big problem is that they know that Balthar tested Boomer and she was a Cylon despite his findings. Later tests (if there where any) gave different results, so maybe they trusted it again. But the point is that they seem to be unable to gain 100 % conclusive information. And maybe, the detector really doesn't work on the Final Five anyway.

There is also the fact that Baltar's cylon test did actually work. He just lied about the results (and then altered the test anyway) so no-one thinks it works, when actually it does.

As for the episode, me and the gf both loved it. I was particularly pleased to hear a reference to the Tomb of Athena and the star-projection that the characters saw there. It suggests again to me that the ancestors of the colonists left Earth and founded Cobol (which is why the star-map in the Tomb matches the view from Earth - whoever made it would have had to have been to Earth or come from there in the first place.)

After the fall of Cobol, it seems likely to me that the 13th tribe went back to Earth, following the path they had taken from there to reach Cobol in the first place. Like other posters, I strongly suspect that cylons were made on Cobol in some form, or possibly even back on Earth. I also feel that Starbuck is involved with the Beings of Light from the original series. Maybe they are the very first cylons or something like that. I certainly think that the Beings of Light are connected somehow to the virtual "in the head" versions of Six, Baltar and Leoben. Virtual Six outright claims to be an angel, iirc, and virtual Leoben says that he never really was Leoben at all. Maybe they really are angels of some sort.

Next episode can't come too soon!

 

[Steel_Wind]

There is another option that has not been discussed concerning Starbuck:

Starbuck is not a Cylon; and Starbuck, in fact, died.

The Guardians of Earth, with significantly advanced biotech, were able to brig her body back to life, modified her memories, added a "jump navigation detector" to her head and bamfed her back to the fleet.

Given the contemplated technologies demonstrated in the Galactica setting, none of that seems above and beyond.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

There is also the fact that Baltar's cylon test did actually work. He just lied about the results (and then altered the test anyway) so no-one thinks it works, when actually it does.

And only Baltar knows this! (And maybe Head-Six). The reliability of the Cylon Detector is questionable in regards to the Final Five, anyway, but for the Colonials, it must look even more confusing.

 

[Mallus]

It's reasonable to think that she might be one and have no memory of it, but I find it strange that no one seems to be questioning the logic of calling off an attack that would end the fleet once and for all in order to set up an elaborate, Rube Goldberg-like plot to kill them later.

It's reasonable to think that Starbuck returning from the dead has them a little off-kilter. They're trying to reconcile the impossible.