BATTLESTAR GALACTICA: Season 2A Part 10; NSCR/9.23.2005. Mid-Season Ending

[wilrich]

Or we could all just remember that this is a show, not real and hope that those terrible things NEVER happen to any of our loved ones or anyone that we will ever meet.

Yeah, its just a show, but I think the point was, show or no show, calling rape "an interesting interrogation technique" minimizes and trivializes the terror, trauma and true evil that that act is. A comment that trivializes something as evil as rape is a comment that trivializes rape, even if that comment was prompted by only a TV show.

 

[wilrich]

Or we could all just remember that this is a show, not real and hope that those terrible things NEVER happen to any of our loved ones or anyone that we will ever meet.

Just to clarify, I'm NOT saying that you do not recognize that rape is a truly vile act -- your post indicates that you clearly do -- my point is that I don't think that one should excuse a remark (the one that prompted your post) that trivializes something so vile on the grounds that it was a TV show prompted that remark.

 

[Wormwood]

When they initially revealed "PegaSix" sprawled on the floor of her cell, she was laying in a position which led me to believe that her arms had been amputated.

Which, the more I thought about it, is definitely something I would do if I ever captured a Cylon Infiltrator alive. At the elbows and knees.

How else do you keep a dangerous machine under your control, especially one which is superhumanly strong and agile?

 

[Wayside]

Or we could expect understatement and sarcasm flying past the head of someone who then rounds on you and attacks as if you were serious.

We could even acknowledge that the whole reason BSG is so interesting is that it's never as black and white as all that.

Just to clarify, I'm NOT saying that you do not recognize that rape is a truly vile act -- your post indicates that you clearly do -- my point is that I don't think that one should excuse a remark (the one that prompted your post) that trivializes something so vile on the grounds that it was a TV show prompted that remark.

I rather think genocide--let's estimate ultra-conservatively (I don't recall ever hearing death figures, someone fill me in if we have them) and say 5 billion per colony died, so 60 billion human beings total--is a truly vile act as well. Rape is certainly nothing to shrug your shoulders about, but like I said, part of what makes BSG so damn interesting is that it's never that straightforward. A game of D&D this show aint.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Best show on TV, bar none.

As for the podcast comment where Cain deliberately did not recognize President Roslin, since it was excised from the show - it didn't happen in the BSG universe. Ron Moore has said several times in the podcasts - if it didn't get broadcast - it didn't happen.

Moreoever, I can't see Adama taking orders from an Admiral who deliberately did not recognize Roslin. That would be a coup d'etat and the failure to recognize *any* civilian gov't would mean the Admiral giving him orders didn't take orders. While the irony of his being upset with such a coup would not be lost upon Adama, "the context", as Adama might put it - is different.

Prediction: My expectation is that Roslin orders them both to stand down and Cain will hesitate and Roslin will order the Pegasus Ex-O to relieve the Admiral from command. Cain will back off but with a hint of "only for now bitch".

Alternative: Starbuck jumps back with "holy news" and Adam and Cain break off the civil war to prep for battle agaisnt the Cylons.

Prediction: After a lot of talk and crew flying back and forth and meeting on civilian ground , this is going to end like the original Pegasus episode - with the Cylons attacking and the Pegasus staying behind to nuke the mothership as the fleet jumps away...with an obscure "end" for the Pegasus.

Postcript: When Baltar can't save Real_Six or get her off the Pegasus - he will have to depart in a hurry. He will kill her to save her from her fate. Real_six will say something obscure to make Baltar think that the one inside his head might be real - or might not be - as that question in the viewer's mind is too good for Moore to abandon. Something to do with the baby, I expect, such as:

Real_Six: "I saved you. Now you Gaius must save me. You know what you have to do."
Balatar: I can't. I'... <stammer>...I'll get you out...I can't leave you..."
Real_Six: Gaius. I'll wake up in a new body. That's my only escape. You have to go back Gaius. You have to save the baby."
Gaius: <looks pained>
Six_inhis_Head: Gaius. Hurry."

Overall: Cain is a nutbar - but one you can understand. She is a military leader without any civilian gov't oversight and without any humanity to defend. She is without hope. She exists only for vengeance. She represents the dead-end militarist path Adama would have taken but for Roslin's command to run and make babies.

It's interesting to see how Moore did an about face on the idea of military discipline working on the "last ship". In Voyager, the other Fed ship the Voyager encountered stranded in the Quadrant had a total breakdown of starfleet dicipline and that was how its Captain and crew had lost thier way. This time, it was a failure to retain their humanity and to surrendder it to a rigid adherence to militarism that was Cain's sin.

Brilliant show.

 

[Dagger75]

We could. But you'd have to ask the original poster as to intent as I certainly don't recognize him/her as a long-standing member/poster in the community therefore have no idea about intent. I like my conversations in context.

Take it how you like. I certainly did.

What happened is I was watching it on DVR and Saw Six in the Cell, I had thought they cut off her arms. Thats what I get for posting and watching TV.

Holy Cow I should visit threads I post to more often.

 

[wingsandsword]

Best show on TV, bar none.

As for the podcast comment where Cain deliberately did not recognize President Roslin, since it was excised from the show - it didn't happen in the BSG universe. Ron Moore has said several times in the podcasts - if it didn't get broadcast - it didn't happen.

That scene wasn't cut from the episode for content, or to change the meaning of anything, it was cut for time, and even then, the commentary says it will be restored in full on the DVD with a "directors cut" of the episode with about an extra 15 minutes of footage. The only reason it was cut is that TV shows don't run 75 minutes, and they didn't have enough to pad it out to 90 minutes like Sci-Fi offered.

Every other time deleted scenes from an episode were included, like in the Season 1 DVD, it was in a separate part, here it is going to be a new "directors cut" cut of the Episode, that sounds pretty authoritative to me.

It was already strongly implied that Cain didn't acknowledge Roslin (like not even returning her messages, and her outright scorn for her in some scenes). If Cain was known not to acknowledge the President, it also solves the gaping plot hole of why didn't Roslin pardon the people she convicted, relieve her of command, or otherwise invoke her Executive authority, at least in token. If Cain had already spurned Roslins authority, it would make it a lot more sensical for Adama to make his stand against her, since Cains legal authority would be void.

Oh, and yes, I also thought at first they'd amputated Pegasus-6's arms. Maybe they meant to imply that, maybe not, but given the savagery that the Pegasus crew had already been shown capiable of, it was no surprise they could be so barbaric, and actually a little surprising when they showed she still had arms.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I think people are over thinking the arms behind the back thing. I think they were just shackled behind her back (standard procedure) and it was just hard to tell, especially with the prisoners rags she was wearing.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I think people are over thinking the arms behind the back thing. I think they were just shackled behind her back (standard procedure) and it was just hard to tell, especially with the prisoners rags she was wearing.

I agree. I didn't think they were amputated or anything like that. And since it killed 7 people according to the Pegasus crew I think they had reason to keep it shackled.

 

[Steel_Wind]

That scene wasn't cut from the episode for content, or to change the meaning of anything, it was cut for time, and even then, the commentary says it will be restored in full on the DVD with a "directors cut" of the episode with about an extra 15 minutes of footage. The only reason it was cut is that TV shows don't run 75 minutes, and they didn't have enough to pad it out to 90 minutes like Sci-Fi offered.

Every other time deleted scenes from an episode were included, like in the Season 1 DVD, it was in a separate part, here it is going to be a new "directors cut" cut of the Episode, that sounds pretty authoritative to me.

No. It isn't authoritative and what's more - you misquoted Moore. After I read your post I listened to the Podcast and you should listen to it again too; Moore does not say that scene was cut for length Moore says the script at one point developed that way - not that it was shot that way. Other scenes were shot and cut - but that wasn't one of them.

It was already strongly implied that Cain didn't acknowledge Roslin (like not even returning her messages, and her outright scorn for her in some scenes)

Yes it was. But the Secretary of Education line is a view which Adama shared. The "I don't recognize civilian government at all" line would have gone too far and they dropped it from the script.