D&D (2024) Best and Worst Classes Lvl 1-10.

[Minigiant]

why?

it is, it's the club that triggers TWF.

Because if you attack with the club you can't Extra attack with the scimitar.

Thirsting blade only gives the pact weapon Extra Attack.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You posted your bottom 2, not 4.
As for the paladin vs fighter. Assuming 1 short rest, and the Fighter having 16 Con vs 14 paladin.

Level 2
Fighter has
2d6+3 * .6 + (3 *.4 graze)= 7.2 * 2 = 14.4 bonus damage
2 Con + 3d10+6 = 24.5 bonus HP

Paladin has
2 smites (1 free) * 2d8 = 18 bonus damage
10+1 cure wounds 2d8+3 = 22 bonus HP.

I consider tactical mind to be on par with Bless, so kind of a wash in that department.


Level 4 (ignoring subclass)
Fighter
2d6+4+2 * .6 + (4*.4) = 9.4 *2 = 18.8 bonus damage
4 Con+4d10+16 = 42 bonus HP

Paladin
2 Smites =18 bonus damage
20 LoH + 2 cure wounds * 2d8+3 = 44

Paladin by a hair.

Level 6
Fighter
2d6+4+3 * .6 + (4*.4) = 10 *4 = 40 bonus damage
4d10+24 = 46 bonus HP.

Paladin
5 level 1 smites (1 free) = 2d8* 5 = 45
30 LoH + 2 level 2 cure wounds = 8d8+6 = 72 bonus HP.

Paladin is firmly ahead by the numbers

• the aura is way better than resilient Wis.
• paladin has more variety with their slot, including dragons breath for AoE.
• a Steed who can take / deal even more damage.

You can calculate 8 and 10 if you want, but LoH will out pace up with second wins, and the Paladin gets more slots.



Now, if you get enough short rests, then fighter will win. Especially a battle master.

I would not take resilient wis as fighter.
I take mage slayer.

One auto save per short rest is better than a +3 bonus to a single save.

And it adds +1 str which at level 8 will allow fornanother feat.

I also considered 2 short rests. Even if you only get 1, one is more hesitant to spend all resources if there might be another fight waiting.

You also neglected tactical shift that allows for extra mobility.
And you did not consider that you can't use GWM with hew if you used smite in the same round (can absolutely happen, if your smite kills an enemy).

And I think the ability of a fighter to fight at range should be considered.

I am also not sure if you can neglect subclass.

But seems like the paladin due to cure wounds changes and the one extra smite has really been improved by the numbers.

Seems absolutely on par to me. And I should remove paladin from bottom 2.

Edit: how do you distribute stats?

I don't get to con 16 as fighter with standard array and still have 17 str.

As a fighter i get 17/14/14/8/12/10 easily.
As a Paladin I would look at 17/12/14/8/10/14.

 

[Horwath]

Because if you attack with the club you can't Extra attack with the scimitar.

Thirsting blade only gives the pact weapon Extra Attack.

why not?


you attack with a club.

club triggers attack with scimitar.

attack with scimitar(pact weapon) is part of Attack action because of nick mastery.

invocation says that if you attack with pact weapon with your Attack action, you can attack twice with your pact weapon.

 

[mellored]

I would not take resilient wis as fighter.
I take mage slayer.

One auto save per short rest is better than a +3 bonus to a single save.

But still not as good as +3 to all saves, that sometimes works for allies too.

I also considered 2 short rests.

That's going to vary by table. I would put fighter ahead at 3 short rests.
Not sure about 2.

You also neglected tactical shift that allows for extra mobility.

Not as good as a Find Steed for mobility.
60' and Disengage each turn, no bonus action.

And you did not consider that you can't use GWM with hew if you used smite in the same round (can absolutely happen, if your smite kills an enemy).

And the Fighter might of used second wind / tactical shift. They got more uses.

And I think the ability of a fighter to fight at range should be considered.

I don't see how that fighter is better at range.

Paladin can also get archery style and use divine favor. Only the smites are out. And action surge takes a big hit with the smaller damage die.

I am also not sure if you can neglect subclass.

Feel free to run the numbers with the subclass if you want.

But IMO +3 to hit all the time (Devotion) vs +1d8 to-hit on 4 attacks (Battlemaster Precision) is close enough.

And immunity to charm is better than knowing resistance at the cost of a battlemaster die.

Devotion can't change weapons though.
And I really like shining smite, so Vengence seems redundant. Though Vengeance with Divine Favor works, but party damage is better IMO.

Edit: how do you distribute stats?

Fighter: 15+2 Str, 15+1 Con, 14 Wis, 10 Dex, 8 Int 8 Cha.
Paladin: 15+2 Str, 15+1 Cha, 14 Con, 10 Dex, 8 Int, 8 Wis.

Point buy. Though I didn't look up what background they would need...

Fighter can start with Tough and Paladin can start with Musician. Not sure how to calculate giving the party heroic inspiration, so I'll leave that as is.

Unfortunately it looks like Cha Shillelagh is not going to work with the offical backgrounds.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

But still not as good as +3 to all saves, that sometimes works for allies too.

Having an ability that 100% works if really needed vs 15% better chance... I disagree.

That's going to vary by table. I would put fighter ahead at 3 short rests.
Not sure about 2.

Probably even.

Not as good as a Find Steed for mobility.
60' and Disengage each turn, no bonus action.

Right. If you have enough space to maneuver your horse. Outside: pro pala. Inside: pro fighter.

And the Fighter might of used second wind / tactical shift. They got more uses.

Guidance vs tactical shift. Again: better vs more often.

I don't see how that fighter is better at range.

With your distribution, they are not.

Paladin can also get archery style and use divine favor. Only the smites are out. And action surge takes a big hit with the smaller damage die.

Yes. But better than nothing.

Feel free to run the numbers with the subclass if you want.

No thanks. That is a bit much work for too little gain.

But IMO +3 to hit all the time (Devotion) vs +1d8 to-hit on 4 attacks (Battlemaster Precision) is close enough.

I think precision strike is overrated now that we don't need it to offset -5 to hit. But of course a good fallback option. And again: higher bonus when you need it is better than a smaller bonus.

And immunity to charm is better than knowing resistance at the cost of a battlemaster die.

Agreed.

Devotion can't change weapons though.
And I really like shining smite, so Vengence seems redundant. Though Vengeance with Divine Favor works, but party damage is better IMO.

Agreed.

Fighter: 15+2 Str, 15+1 Con, 14 Wis, 10 Dex, 8 Int 8 Cha.
Paladin: 15+2 Str, 15+1 Cha, 14 Con, 10 Dex, 8 Int, 8 Wis.

Point buy. Though I didn't look up what background they would need...

I would rather have higher dex as fighter for ranged attacks.
And with 8 wis, the paladin starts with worse wis saves than the fighter until the aura kicks in.

Fighter can start with Tough and Paladin can start with Musician. Not sure how to calculate giving the party heroic inspiration, so I'll leave that as is.

Musician is nice. Probably RAW the Paladin can give themself inspiration by targettin someone who already has it.

Unfortunately it looks like Cha Shillelagh is not going to work with the offical backgrounds.

I had no problems if you assumed custom background or human feat.

So my breakdown, as already mentioned before: seems like they are dead even on average. I see neither a clear universal advantage with the fighter, nor the paladin.

 

[Horwath]

Fighter: 15+2 Str, 15+1 Con, 14 Wis, 10 Dex, 8 Int 8 Cha.

If I wanted a little more all around fighter, I would go with:

str 15+2, dex 13, con 13+1, int 10, wis 12, cha 10

then when opportunity opens, take SS with +1 dex to have both good melee and decent ranged

 

[Minigiant]

why not?


you attack with a club.

club triggers attack with scimitar.

attack with scimitar(pact weapon) is part of Attack action because of nick mastery.

invocation says that if you attack with pact weapon with your Attack action, you can attack twice with your pact weapon.

Invocation says your pact weapon has Extra attack

You never attacked with your pact weapon as a Attack action. You did that with your shillelagh.

Attack: Club
Nick: Scimitar
Extra Attack: None since you attacked with club

 

[Horwath]

Invocation says your pact weapon has Extra attack

You never attacked with your pact weapon as a Attack action. You did that with your shillelagh.

Attack: Club
Nick: Scimitar
Extra Attack: None since you attacked with club

because of nick scimitar is in attack action. that is the whole point of nick mastery.

 

[Minigiant]

because of nick scimitar is in attack action. that is the whole point of nick mastery.

It's not though.

Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.

The nick attack is the light weapon's extra attack
Not Extra Attack's extra attack.

 

[Horwath]

It's not though.

Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.

The nick attack is the light weapon's extra attack
Not Extra Attack's extra attack.

Nick attack is the attack with pack weapon withing Attack action, hence it triggers ability of invocation so you can make extra attack of Extra attack feature.

only question you must answer is, does attack with Nick mastery with pact weapon happens within Attack action, if yes, then use Extra attack feature of the invocation.