Blank Slate (Everyone Welcome)

[Jemal]

The more I think about him, the more this God seems to develop in my mind as Balance, not Change. Though the fact that things are always changing is a form of balance in itself...

SO, If it's ok with you (Darimaus), and the other PC's, I think I'm going to do a LITTLE Redesign to Jemal..
God of Undeath/Rebirth, and the Evershifting Balance of Life/death.

 

[Ambrus]

I'm afraid I'm having trouble wrapping my head around your God's doctrine. Death and rebirth are a part of life but how does undeath, an eternal unchanging state of being, exemply change or in any way help maintain a balance between life and death? Undeath as a concept would seem to be anathema to change. :\

 

[Jemal]

In a contemporary D&D setting that's the general consencus... But if you think about it, most change is cyclical, and therefore isn't really change anyways, b/c it's predictable and happens over and over.

Undeath is, from a certain point of view, just a different path after death.

And if you'll note, I'm wanting to switch the 'change' aspect for the 'balance' aspect..

I think he makes more sense as a god of Rebirth and Balance, and Undeath is just another form of giving some semblance of life back to the dead.. Albeit, a very screwed up form.
But hey, who says ALL of a god's portfolios have to interconnect?

(EX: Wee-jas.. God of death and Magic? Other than Necromancy, how do those two connect?)

 

[Ambrus]

I dunno, it still seems a bit lopsided to me. Ignoring the question of change, how does undeath help to balance life and death? If the undead are intended to weigh-in on the dead side of the equation it would seem to be a counter-intuitive option. The undead walk around, struggle, experience and consume resources much the same way the living do; in that respect they tend to make death itself much more like life. In effect, they weigh in on the side of life and only help to unbalance the equation; both the living and the dead are now alive and kicking around, leaving fewer and fewer beings to just be plain old dead. Add to that the fact that the undead don't ever come to a natural end; they just keep going and going and never get reborn. Even worse, they propagate by killing the living and in turn produce offspring who are equally timeless.

In effect, unless the living take it upon themselves to destroy the undead, all life everywhere will eventually be subsumed and replaced with undeath. There will be no balance between life and death, simply a single unchanging homogeneous whole that has effectively replaced both. I suppose some might view that as a sort of balance between the two... Is that the "balance" your god is seeking to bring about?

 

[Jemal]

I dunno, it still seems a bit lopsided to me. Ignoring the question of change, how does undeath help to balance life and death? If the undead are intended to weigh-in on the dead side of the equation it would seem to be a counter-intuitive option. The undead walk around, struggle, experience and consume resources much the same way the living do; in that respect they tend to make death itself much more like life. In effect, they weigh in on the side of life and only help to unbalance the equation; both the living and the dead are now alive and kicking around, leaving fewer and fewer beings to just be plain old dead. Add to that the fact that the undead don't ever come to a natural end; they just keep going and going and never get reborn. Even worse, they propagate by killing the living and in turn produce offspring who are equally timeless.

In effect, unless the living take it upon themselves to destroy the undead, all life everywhere will eventually be subsumed and replaced with undeath. There will be no balance between life and death, simply a single unchanging homogeneous whole that has effectively replaced both. I suppose some might view that as a sort of balance between the two... Is that the "balance" your god is seeking to bring about?

Undead are on neither the side of life OR death, but UNlife and UNdeath. Who says there have to be only two sides? A triangle or square is easier to balance than a single line. (if you ask me). It's differing points of view.. Mine and my gods are obviously very different from most others.
And as to the sort of balance I seek to bring, that is something best discovered through play.

 

[GlassEye]

Jemal, you beat me to it. I was gonna say that it's much easier to balance a three-legged stool than one with two legs. I see your point and it's a perfectly valid interpretation. People typically perceive it as a dichotomy: life vs. death (with undeath weighing in on the side of death). Byrrl will likely view it that way. I like your view, though.

 

[Jemal]

Thanks for the understanding. (Though I admit I like your stool analogy better than my triangle one)
And just for the record, don't worry about actively TRYING to be nice to me, I have no problem being the Outcast God.. without one of those, the universe would grow kinda bland.
Jemal has his own plans and ambitions, and will solicit aid from the others when and where he can, to further his own goals.

 

[GlassEye]

...don't worry about actively TRYING to be nice to me, I have no problem being the Outcast God...

Byrrl isn't just trying to be nice (though despite having had conflicts with nearly every other god he's come into contact with, he still rather naively believes in the community of the gods. I expect him to get taken advantage of until he wises up a bit more.). Ilem and H'M have made it clear to him that there is a lot that he doesn't know or understand and so he's feeling his way through things, trying not to make major mistakes, at the same time that he's growing into his power. And several things have popped up that he hasn't yet had time to deal with, but knows he needs to, things that he understands better than these undead.

And I'm still trying to get a feel for Byrrl. Right now he seems to be in a more passive plant mode, going with the flow, so to speak. Later (hopefully) we'll see him with more beastial cunning, or methodical like social insects, or with the ferocity of a wounded animal.

 

[Ambrus]

I have no problem with the idea of balancing three aspects of existence rather than just two, I'm afraid I just don't see how you propose to balance the three. I'm just saying, if we follow the standard view of undeath, both the living and the dead can be converted into the undead; the former can be assimilated while the former can be animated. The undead however don't ever change into one of the other two by any natural means. As time goes by, all the weight on your metaphorical stool will be drawn towards the undead side while leaving the other two devoid of anything. Normally, that'd cause an unbalanced state.

Metaphors aside, I'm just trying to figure out how to deal with your character if we can't grasp what he stands for. Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't quite get it. :\

 

[Jemal]

well, keep in mind this isn't a 'classic D&D' setting, and I for one am trying to keep it from that...
(You'll note I've been trying to handle Undead differently, though I haven't gone into much detail on them. I plan it to be something out of the hands of mortals. Undead are not soul-less beasts, they are the souls having nowhere else to go, or having 'unfinished business' on this realm).

Also you'll notice that while typically in D&D it's the Priests(clerics) who have control/power over the Undead, in this they have power over themselves, and they are opposed by the Druids.

As to the Undead getting the upper hand.. Well, things tend to balance out. They have two ways of dieing.. A) Being destroyed by the Living. or B) setting right whatever it is that is keeping their soul around.

(And the Undead don't, so far as has been written, propogate themselves.)